Password Manager suggestion needed

[Big Mac]

On my Windows XP system I have Norton SystemWorks 2004. Part of the
program is a Password Manager. It is just a great program. It knows
when I am on a site that needs an email address & password entered in,
and will do it for you if you say "yes".

Now I have my father in the Internet with a Windows 98 computer. He
is surely not going to buy a Password Manager program, but complains
about having to enter stuff in. (Hey, if you were 81 years old, you
have a right to be kind of stubborn).

The freeware Password Managers I have looked at are just clever little
programs that keep URL addresses along with login names & passwords.
This is better than nothing, but these aren't "intelligent" (??)
programs - you still have to open the PW Manager Window, & copy/paste,
more or less.

I won't hold my breath, but does anyone know of a freeware Password
Manager that works like my Norton one I mentioned above?

Thanks, Big Mac

[VWWall]

Big Mac wrote:

> On my Windows XP system I have Norton SystemWorks 2004. Part of the
> program is a Password Manager. It is just a great program. It knows
> when I am on a site that needs an email address & password entered in,
> and will do it for you if you say "yes".
>
> Now I have my father in the Internet with a Windows 98 computer. He
> is surely not going to buy a Password Manager program, but complains
> about having to enter stuff in. (Hey, if you were 81 years old, you
> have a right to be kind of stubborn).

I'm 79, and working on it!;-)
>
> The freeware Password Managers I have looked at are just clever little
> programs that keep URL addresses along with login names & passwords.
> This is better than nothing, but these aren't "intelligent" (??)
> programs - you still have to open the PW Manager Window, & copy/paste,
> more or less.
>
> I won't hold my breath, but does anyone know of a freeware Password
> Manager that works like my Norton one I mentioned above?

Take a look at Mozilla Firefox as an alternative to Internet Explorer.
It has a built in password manager. It doesn't seem to have as many
security problems as does IE.

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

Virg Wall
--
A foolish consistency is the
hobgoblin of little minds,........
Ralph Waldo Emerson
(Microsoft programmer's manual.)

[Don Schmidt]

I use AiRoboForm which is very good. They have a free version and a Pro
version.

http://www.roboform.com

Gator is another freebee but it is a spy program which will plague you with
ads, popups, etc. Best to stay away from it.


--
Don
--------
Vancouver, USA - One of the great cities in one of the 45+ countries in the
Americas!



"Big Mac" > wrote in message
...
> On my Windows XP system I have Norton SystemWorks 2004. Part of the
> program is a Password Manager. It is just a great program. It knows
> when I am on a site that needs an email address & password entered in,
> and will do it for you if you say "yes".
>
> Now I have my father in the Internet with a Windows 98 computer. He
> is surely not going to buy a Password Manager program, but complains
> about having to enter stuff in. (Hey, if you were 81 years old, you
> have a right to be kind of stubborn).
>
> The freeware Password Managers I have looked at are just clever little
> programs that keep URL addresses along with login names & passwords.
> This is better than nothing, but these aren't "intelligent" (??)
> programs - you still have to open the PW Manager Window, & copy/paste,
> more or less.
>
> I won't hold my breath, but does anyone know of a freeware Password
> Manager that works like my Norton one I mentioned above?
>
> Thanks, Big Mac
>

[Mostly Me (MM)]

VWWall wrote:

> Take a look at Mozilla Firefox as an alternative to Internet Explorer.
> It has a built in password manager. It doesn't seem to have as many
> security problems as does IE.
>
> http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
>
> Virg Wall

Excellent advice. Besides the password manager it has a cookie manager,
built-in popup blocker and a wealth of free extensions that facilitate
building a browser truly customized for *YOUR* needs. Get the
Thunderbird e-mail and newsgroup client while you're at it.
http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

mm

[ppoatt]

Win98 has such a utility.
IE properties/Content tab/Auto Complete Button.Check the
boxes,at top, for what you want.
If you go this route I would suggest NOT to do any of his
finacial work on that machine. Hacking program can get his
access to his bank account this way. I save nothing to my
computer dealing with passwords or user names.
But I can see a need for someone who may not have a sharp
memory to keep all the passwords in his/her memory.
>-----Original Message-----
>On my Windows XP system I have Norton SystemWorks 2004.
Part of the
>program is a Password Manager. It is just a great
program. It knows
>when I am on a site that needs an email address &
password entered in,
>and will do it for you if you say "yes".
>
>Now I have my father in the Internet with a Windows 98
computer. He
>is surely not going to buy a Password Manager program,
but complains
>about having to enter stuff in. (Hey, if you were 81
years old, you
>have a right to be kind of stubborn).
>
>The freeware Password Managers I have looked at are just
clever little
>programs that keep URL addresses along with login names &
passwords.
>This is better than nothing, but these
aren't "intelligent" (??)
>programs - you still have to open the PW Manager Window,
& copy/paste,
>more or less.
>
>I won't hold my breath, but does anyone know of a
freeware Password
>Manager that works like my Norton one I mentioned above?
>
>Thanks, Big Mac
>
>.
>

[XMan]

"Don Schmidt" <Retired > wrote in message
...
> I use AiRoboForm which is very good. They have a free version and a Pro
> version.
>
> http://www.roboform.com
>
> Gator is another freebee but it is a spy program which will plague you
with
> ads, popups, etc. Best to stay away from it.

Gator also leaves all your passwords unencrypted in a hidden window, ripe
for the picking by any malware that just happens along.

> "Big Mac" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On my Windows XP system I have Norton SystemWorks 2004. Part of the
> > program is a Password Manager. It is just a great program. It knows
> > when I am on a site that needs an email address & password entered in,
> > and will do it for you if you say "yes".
> >
> > Now I have my father in the Internet with a Windows 98 computer. He
> > is surely not going to buy a Password Manager program, but complains
> > about having to enter stuff in. (Hey, if you were 81 years old, you
> > have a right to be kind of stubborn).
> >
> > The freeware Password Managers I have looked at are just clever little
> > programs that keep URL addresses along with login names & passwords.
> > This is better than nothing, but these aren't "intelligent" (??)
> > programs - you still have to open the PW Manager Window, & copy/paste,
> > more or less.
> >
> > I won't hold my breath, but does anyone know of a freeware Password
> > Manager that works like my Norton one I mentioned above?
> >
> > Thanks, Big Mac
> >
>
>

[Don Schmidt]

'Didn't know that. Thanks for the alert.

Don


"XMan" > wrote in message
...
> "Don Schmidt" <Retired > wrote in message
> ...
> > I use AiRoboForm which is very good. They have a free version and a Pro
> > version.
> >
> > http://www.roboform.com
> >
> > Gator is another freebee but it is a spy program which will plague you
> with
> > ads, popups, etc. Best to stay away from it.
>
> Gator also leaves all your passwords unencrypted in a hidden window, ripe
> for the picking by any malware that just happens along.
>
> > "Big Mac" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On my Windows XP system I have Norton SystemWorks 2004. Part of the
> > > program is a Password Manager. It is just a great program. It knows
> > > when I am on a site that needs an email address & password entered in,
> > > and will do it for you if you say "yes".
> > >
> > > Now I have my father in the Internet with a Windows 98 computer. He
> > > is surely not going to buy a Password Manager program, but complains
> > > about having to enter stuff in. (Hey, if you were 81 years old, you
> > > have a right to be kind of stubborn).
> > >
> > > The freeware Password Managers I have looked at are just clever little
> > > programs that keep URL addresses along with login names & passwords.
> > > This is better than nothing, but these aren't "intelligent" (??)
> > > programs - you still have to open the PW Manager Window, & copy/paste,
> > > more or less.
> > >
> > > I won't hold my breath, but does anyone know of a freeware Password
> > > Manager that works like my Norton one I mentioned above?
> > >
> > > Thanks, Big Mac
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[VWWall]

Mostly Me (MM) wrote:

> VWWall wrote:
>
>> Take a look at Mozilla Firefox as an alternative to Internet Explorer.
>> It has a built in password manager. It doesn't seem to have as many
>> security problems as does IE.
>>
>> http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
>>
>> Virg Wall
>
>
> Excellent advice. Besides the password manager it has a cookie manager,
> built-in popup blocker and a wealth of free extensions that facilitate
> building a browser truly customized for *YOUR* needs. Get the
> Thunderbird e-mail and newsgroup client while you're at it.
> http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

I use Thunderbird as well. Just as I pressed the "send" button, I
thought that should have been added! :-) Thanks.

There's an excellent forum on Mozilla products at:

http://www.mozillazine.org/

Virg Wall
--
A foolish consistency is the
hobgoblin of little minds,........
Ralph Waldo Emerson
(Microsoft programmer's manual.)

[Mostly Me (MM)]

ppoatt wrote:
> Win98 has such a utility.
> IE properties/Content tab/Auto Complete Button.Check the
> boxes,at top, for what you want.
> If you go this route I would suggest NOT to do any of his
> finacial work on that machine. Hacking program can get his
> access to his bank account this way. I save nothing to my
> computer dealing with passwords or user names.
> But I can see a need for someone who may not have a sharp
> memory to keep all the passwords in his/her memory.
>

Hi,
Auto-complete is a far cry from being a password manager. It's not even
close. That's like saying a light switch is an electricity manager.

I wouldn't store "important" login information such as for banking sites
either, but a password manager allows *you*, not the browser, to pick
and choose which ones to store.

mm

[Smoker]

"Big Mac" > wrote in message
...
> On my Windows XP system I have Norton SystemWorks 2004. Part of the
> program is a Password Manager. It is just a great program. It knows
> when I am on a site that needs an email address & password entered in,
> and will do it for you if you say "yes".
>
> Now I have my father in the Internet with a Windows 98 computer. He
> is surely not going to buy a Password Manager program, but complains
> about having to enter stuff in. (Hey, if you were 81 years old, you
> have a right to be kind of stubborn).
>
> The freeware Password Managers I have looked at are just clever little
> programs that keep URL addresses along with login names & passwords.
> This is better than nothing, but these aren't "intelligent" (??)
> programs - you still have to open the PW Manager Window, & copy/paste,
> more or less.
>
> I won't hold my breath, but does anyone know of a freeware Password
> Manager that works like my Norton one I mentioned above?
>
In Internet Explorer -- Tools/Internet Options/Content/Auto Complete has
settings for auto-entering passwords. When setup it will ask the first time
you type it in if you want it to remember them. Next visit to the site jst
mouse click where the user name goes or email address and it will plop it
in. At least that's how it goes with IE 5.5. As mentioned, Firefox is a good
browser for remembering passwords and auto-enters when you appear on the
page.

[Gary S. Terhune]

IE Autocomplete allows me to choose whether to save a password or not, every
time. So, that's one down. What else does a password manager do that
Autocomplete doesn't?

BTW, I've noticed many times that Autocomplete isn't functional in HTTPS
pages. I haven't messed with it enough to know that it's meant to be that
way and always that way, just a passing, occasional observation.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Win9x

"Mostly Me (MM)" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
> Auto-complete is a far cry from being a password manager. It's not even
> close. That's like saying a light switch is an electricity manager.
>
> I wouldn't store "important" login information such as for banking sites
> either, but a password manager allows *you*, not the browser, to pick
> and choose which ones to store.
>
> mm

[Mostly Me (MM)]

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> IE Autocomplete allows me to choose whether to save a password or not, every
> time. So, that's one down. What else does a password manager do that
> Autocomplete doesn't?

Hi,
Well, it allows you to view the sites and login info you have stored; it
allows you to view sites that are set to never save the login info;
allows you remove any in either category. Basically, it allows you to
manage them, hence the term "manager". Verstehen?

So, that's three down. Let me know if you need help with what a cookie
manager does.

I don't use Autocomplete in IE, so I couldn't tell you if the fact that
"many times that Autocomplete isn't functional in HTTPS pages" is by
design or not. I wouldn't hazard to guess as to why it would pick and
choose certain HTTPS sites to be functional on and not functional on
"many" others.

mm

[Gary S. Terhune]

"Mostly Me (MM)" > wrote in message
...
> Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> > IE Autocomplete allows me to choose whether to save a password or not,
every
> > time. So, that's one down. What else does a password manager do that
> > Autocomplete doesn't?
>
> Hi,
> Well, it allows you to view the sites and login info you have stored; it
> allows you to view sites that are set to never save the login info;
> allows you remove any in either category. Basically, it allows you to
> manage them, hence the term "manager". Verstehen?

No, I don't think Autocomplete provides those, at least not in any easy GUI.
But then, I don't see the need for such, either. Different strokes, I guess.
I can clear *all* saved info whenever I feel the need, and that's more than
enough for my purposes.

>
> So, that's three down. Let me know if you need help with what a cookie
> manager does.
>

Same response as above. I don't permit Cookies unless they are useful to me,
period. IE 6 permits me to specifically permit or deny them on a case by
case basis, or to permit or deny on a site by site basis. And I'm very
concservative about those I permit on a site basis. Why, when I can quickly
review the few cookies I *do* have in the Cookies folder, would I need a
"Cookies Manager"? As with the "Password Manager", I suppose it might seem
useful to others--for me it's just another needless layer of gee-whiz.

In any case, your previous statement implied that autocomplete does not
allow you to decide when or if passwords are saved for specific sites, and I
felt it necessary to refute that statement. Thank you for expanding on the
subject and cluing me in on just whata else a Password Manager might be good
for (even if I, personally, have no use for such.)

> I don't use Autocomplete in IE, so I couldn't tell you if the fact that
> "many times that Autocomplete isn't functional in HTTPS pages" is by
> design or not. I wouldn't hazard to guess as to why it would pick and
> choose certain HTTPS sites to be functional on and not functional on
> "many" others.
>

Not sure what you are referring to in that last sentence. I think you
misunderstood my statement, which was that "I've noticed many times...", the
word "many" being intended to modify "noticed". I haven't paid specific
attention to the issue except when autocomplete of passwords doesn't work,
and then it seems always to be an HTTPS page. But I seldom pay particular
attention to whether or not I'm on an HTTPS page, and I also don't tend to
notice when autocomplete does work--only when it doesn't. Perhaps it's not a
function of HTTPS and/or Autocomplete at all, but simply a function of the
specific pages involved. I only mentioned the issue because of the concern
expressed in previous posts about passwords being saved for particularly
sensitive sites, like online banking, etc., and I observed that it's
possible that IE autocomplete doesn't do that anyway, those sites being
primarily HTTPS sites.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Win9x

[Mostly Me (MM)]

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> "Mostly Me (MM)" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Gary S. Terhune wrote:
>>
>>>IE Autocomplete allows me to choose whether to save a password or not,
>
> every
>
>>>time. So, that's one down. What else does a password manager do that
>>>Autocomplete doesn't?
>>
>>Hi,
>>Well, it allows you to view the sites and login info you have stored; it
>>allows you to view sites that are set to never save the login info;
>>allows you remove any in either category. Basically, it allows you to
>>manage them, hence the term "manager". Verstehen?
>
>
> No, I don't think Autocomplete provides those, at least not in any easy GUI.
> But then, I don't see the need for such, either. Different strokes, I guess.
> I can clear *all* saved info whenever I feel the need, and that's more than
> enough for my purposes.
>
>
>>So, that's three down. Let me know if you need help with what a cookie
>>manager does.
>>
>
>
> Same response as above. I don't permit Cookies unless they are useful to me,
> period. IE 6 permits me to specifically permit or deny them on a case by
> case basis, or to permit or deny on a site by site basis. And I'm very
> concservative about those I permit on a site basis. Why, when I can quickly
> review the few cookies I *do* have in the Cookies folder, would I need a
> "Cookies Manager"? As with the "Password Manager", I suppose it might seem
> useful to others--for me it's just another needless layer of gee-whiz.
>
> In any case, your previous statement implied that autocomplete does not
> allow you to decide when or if passwords are saved for specific sites, and I
> felt it necessary to refute that statement. Thank you for expanding on the
> subject and cluing me in on just whata else a Password Manager might be good
> for (even if I, personally, have no use for such.)
>
>
>>I don't use Autocomplete in IE, so I couldn't tell you if the fact that
>>"many times that Autocomplete isn't functional in HTTPS pages" is by
>>design or not. I wouldn't hazard to guess as to why it would pick and
>>choose certain HTTPS sites to be functional on and not functional on
>>"many" others.
>>
>
>
> Not sure what you are referring to in that last sentence. I think you
> misunderstood my statement, which was that "I've noticed many times...", the
> word "many" being intended to modify "noticed". I haven't paid specific
> attention to the issue except when autocomplete of passwords doesn't work,
> and then it seems always to be an HTTPS page. But I seldom pay particular
> attention to whether or not I'm on an HTTPS page, and I also don't tend to
> notice when autocomplete does work--only when it doesn't. Perhaps it's not a
> function of HTTPS and/or Autocomplete at all, but simply a function of the
> specific pages involved. I only mentioned the issue because of the concern
> expressed in previous posts about passwords being saved for particularly
> sensitive sites, like online banking, etc., and I observed that it's
> possible that IE autocomplete doesn't do that anyway, those sites being
> primarily HTTPS sites.
>

Hi,
Glad I could help. I don't personally use the Password Manager either as
I don't have it store any passwords. But, it does have a "clear all"
button also, in case one wants to limit their choices to all or none.

The cookie manager has it's uses, however. It's similar to the one
available in IE6, it just has many more options available and allows you
to do it from one interface, right in your tools dialogue box.
(Although, the cookie manager in IE6 is more enhanced than the one in
previous versions of IE.)

I suppose it comes down to a matter of having freedom of choices and
options and the ability to use them. It's a good thing you have no use
for those things, because you *can't* use them. I used to think I had no
use for tabbed browsing, until I had the *ability* to utilize it.

> Not sure what you are referring to in that last sentence. I think you
> misunderstood my statement, which was that "I've noticed many
>times...", the
> word "many" being intended to modify "noticed".

Yes, I did misunderstand it. My bad. Sorry about that.

mm

[Gary S. Terhune]

"Tabbed browsing"? I know I should know this, but please explain, or post a
good link? Navigating IE windows using Taskbar buttons can be a pain, but
I'm not sure I want any more real estate being absorbed by anything else. I
like as much to be visible on the screen as possible, instead of scrolling
blindly around, and I've already got my resolution at 1152x864 on a 19"
screen--rather too small for my aging eyes.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Win9x

"Mostly Me (MM)" > wrote in message
...
> Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> > "Mostly Me (MM)" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> >>
> >>>IE Autocomplete allows me to choose whether to save a password or not,
> >
> > every
> >
> >>>time. So, that's one down. What else does a password manager do that
> >>>Autocomplete doesn't?
> >>
> >>Hi,
> >>Well, it allows you to view the sites and login info you have stored; it
> >>allows you to view sites that are set to never save the login info;
> >>allows you remove any in either category. Basically, it allows you to
> >>manage them, hence the term "manager". Verstehen?
> >
> >
> > No, I don't think Autocomplete provides those, at least not in any easy
GUI.
> > But then, I don't see the need for such, either. Different strokes, I
guess.
> > I can clear *all* saved info whenever I feel the need, and that's more
than
> > enough for my purposes.
> >
> >
> >>So, that's three down. Let me know if you need help with what a cookie
> >>manager does.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Same response as above. I don't permit Cookies unless they are useful to
me,
> > period. IE 6 permits me to specifically permit or deny them on a case by
> > case basis, or to permit or deny on a site by site basis. And I'm very
> > concservative about those I permit on a site basis. Why, when I can
quickly
> > review the few cookies I *do* have in the Cookies folder, would I need a
> > "Cookies Manager"? As with the "Password Manager", I suppose it might
seem
> > useful to others--for me it's just another needless layer of gee-whiz.
> >
> > In any case, your previous statement implied that autocomplete does not
> > allow you to decide when or if passwords are saved for specific sites,
and I
> > felt it necessary to refute that statement. Thank you for expanding on
the
> > subject and cluing me in on just whata else a Password Manager might be
good
> > for (even if I, personally, have no use for such.)
> >
> >
> >>I don't use Autocomplete in IE, so I couldn't tell you if the fact that
> >>"many times that Autocomplete isn't functional in HTTPS pages" is by
> >>design or not. I wouldn't hazard to guess as to why it would pick and
> >>choose certain HTTPS sites to be functional on and not functional on
> >>"many" others.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Not sure what you are referring to in that last sentence. I think you
> > misunderstood my statement, which was that "I've noticed many times...",
the
> > word "many" being intended to modify "noticed". I haven't paid specific
> > attention to the issue except when autocomplete of passwords doesn't
work,
> > and then it seems always to be an HTTPS page. But I seldom pay
particular
> > attention to whether or not I'm on an HTTPS page, and I also don't tend
to
> > notice when autocomplete does work--only when it doesn't. Perhaps it's
not a
> > function of HTTPS and/or Autocomplete at all, but simply a function of
the
> > specific pages involved. I only mentioned the issue because of the
concern
> > expressed in previous posts about passwords being saved for particularly
> > sensitive sites, like online banking, etc., and I observed that it's
> > possible that IE autocomplete doesn't do that anyway, those sites being
> > primarily HTTPS sites.
> >
>
> Hi,
> Glad I could help. I don't personally use the Password Manager either as
> I don't have it store any passwords. But, it does have a "clear all"
> button also, in case one wants to limit their choices to all or none.
>
> The cookie manager has it's uses, however. It's similar to the one
> available in IE6, it just has many more options available and allows you
> to do it from one interface, right in your tools dialogue box.
> (Although, the cookie manager in IE6 is more enhanced than the one in
> previous versions of IE.)
>
> I suppose it comes down to a matter of having freedom of choices and
> options and the ability to use them. It's a good thing you have no use
> for those things, because you *can't* use them. I used to think I had no
> use for tabbed browsing, until I had the *ability* to utilize it.
>
> > Not sure what you are referring to in that last sentence. I think you
> > misunderstood my statement, which was that "I've noticed many
> >times...", the
> > word "many" being intended to modify "noticed".
>
> Yes, I did misunderstand it. My bad. Sorry about that.
>
> mm

[Mostly Me (MM)]

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> "Tabbed browsing"? I know I should know this, but please explain, or post a
> good link? Navigating IE windows using Taskbar buttons can be a pain, but
> I'm not sure I want any more real estate being absorbed by anything else. I
> like as much to be visible on the screen as possible, instead of scrolling
> blindly around, and I've already got my resolution at 1152x864 on a 19"
> screen--rather too small for my aging eyes.
>

Hi,
I know what you mean about screen real estate-- I hate giving up
precious pixels. I'm so anal about it, I even auto-hide the task bar.
Some of those browsers and "tool bars" that certain ISPs provide-I have
to wonder how people deal with it- all that extra crap and you end up
with a 400x300 window to view a web page (OK, that's a slight
exaggeration). Try to read a news article and end up getting a headache
trying to stay focused on a sentence because of the constant scrolling,
horizontally and vertically.

Well, anyway, here's an explanation of tabbed browsing:
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/why/#tab-browsing

If you like, post a web page you're familiar with and I'll visit it,
open up some tabs, then take and post a screen-shot so you can get a
more realistic view of what kind of space you'd be giving up, at least
at 1024x768 resolution. But later though, the ground is finally dry
enough to plant some sweet corn, so my afternoon is booked.

mm

[Gary S. Terhune]

Thanks for the link, MM. Hey, I can see that one being real useful for
dial-ups. I've always preferred multiple instances of IE over doing a lot of
foward and back stuff, and this might also solve that, also. Alas, I'm a
die-hard IE user. I *have* to for many reasons, and I'm getting to where
trying to run two different browsers just isn't as fun as it used to be,
<g>. Maybe I'll put it on one of my test-beds when I get them back in
harness.

No need to perform the real-estate test. My day, too, is well-booked
already. Cleaning up the blown spring flowers, chopping out the dead peach
tree, bathing the herd of poodles, maybe even get around to re-setting a
sadly leaning gatepost in concrete if I get real ambitious, <g>.

And that's only *after* I get my weekly fix of Stuart McLean's Vinyl Cafe,
Canada's version of Prairie Home Theater. http://www.cbc.ca/vinylcafe/ It's
a Saturday night program, I believe, but we listen to it on Sundays out of
Radio One North, Whitehorse, my wife's hometown, so she can catch up on the
doings there afterwards. Unfortunately, that means the only medium is
RealPlayer, but I put up with it for this one program.

On in 15 minutes at http://north.cbc.ca/north/media/whitlive.ram

Have fun planting. Probably my favorite part of gardening, The rest is just
work!

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Win9x

"Mostly Me (MM)" > wrote in message
...
> Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> > "Tabbed browsing"? I know I should know this, but please explain, or
post a
> > good link? Navigating IE windows using Taskbar buttons can be a pain,
but
> > I'm not sure I want any more real estate being absorbed by anything
else. I
> > like as much to be visible on the screen as possible, instead of
scrolling
> > blindly around, and I've already got my resolution at 1152x864 on a 19"
> > screen--rather too small for my aging eyes.
> >
>
> Hi,
> I know what you mean about screen real estate-- I hate giving up
> precious pixels. I'm so anal about it, I even auto-hide the task bar.
> Some of those browsers and "tool bars" that certain ISPs provide-I have
> to wonder how people deal with it- all that extra crap and you end up
> with a 400x300 window to view a web page (OK, that's a slight
> exaggeration). Try to read a news article and end up getting a headache
> trying to stay focused on a sentence because of the constant scrolling,
> horizontally and vertically.
>
> Well, anyway, here's an explanation of tabbed browsing:
> http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/why/#tab-browsing
>
> If you like, post a web page you're familiar with and I'll visit it,
> open up some tabs, then take and post a screen-shot so you can get a
> more realistic view of what kind of space you'd be giving up, at least
> at 1024x768 resolution. But later though, the ground is finally dry
> enough to plant some sweet corn, so my afternoon is booked.
>
> mm

[Mostly Me (MM)]

Gary S. Terhune wrote:

> Thanks for the link, MM. Hey, I can see that one being real useful for
> dial-ups. I've always preferred multiple instances of IE over doing a lot of
> foward and back stuff, and this might also solve that, also. Alas, I'm a
> die-hard IE user. I *have* to for many reasons, and I'm getting to where
> trying to run two different browsers just isn't as fun as it used to be,
> <g>. Maybe I'll put it on one of my test-beds when I get them back in
> harness.

You're welcome. Yes, it does eliminate the need for forward and back.
I understand you're need to use IE and I certainly wasn't looking to
convert you.<g> Running two browsers is a pain, but yeah, if you get a
whim, try it on a different system.

> No need to perform the real-estate test. My day, too, is well-booked
> already. Cleaning up the blown spring flowers, chopping out the dead peach
> tree, bathing the herd of poodles, maybe even get around to re-setting a
> sadly leaning gatepost in concrete if I get real ambitious, <g>.

Whew, that's more ambition than I mustered yesterday. But I got rid of
my dead peach tree last fall. Ok, it wasn't dead, but it was on it's
way. The fruit was getting fewer and smaller, wasn't worth the effort
anymore.

> And that's only *after* I get my weekly fix of Stuart McLean's Vinyl Cafe,
> Canada's version of Prairie Home Theater. http://www.cbc.ca/vinylcafe/ It's
> a Saturday night program, I believe, but we listen to it on Sundays out of
> Radio One North, Whitehorse, my wife's hometown, so she can catch up on the
> doings there afterwards. Unfortunately, that means the only medium is
> RealPlayer, but I put up with it for this one program.
>
> On in 15 minutes at http://north.cbc.ca/north/media/whitlive.ram
>
> Have fun planting. Probably my favorite part of gardening, The rest is just
> work!
>

It was enjoyable. Maintenance will be a pain for the next few weeks +,
then it comes down to waiting for the harvest. Of course, I have no
trouble getting volunteers to help with that...Oh well, that's what I
plant it for. It keeps me out of trouble and people truly appreciate the
extra crops that are available. The fun part is turning kids loose on
the strawberry patch and watch them go home with a basket full of
berries and a stomachache. Same when the raspberries ripen. Sometimes
it's those simple pleasures that are the most rewarding.

mm

[ppoatt]

Are you sure the peach tree is dead? It has been known for
those to go dormant for a year or 2 and come back. Had one
years ago loose all it's leaves in july and not leaf out
again until the second spring after. I didn't cut it down
for the reason it was holding up one end of my hammock.
Trim all the limbs back to nubs.Seal the ends. Let it
stand. Peaches only produce on new growth anyway.
>-----Original Message-----
>Thanks for the link, MM. Hey, I can see that one being
real useful for
>dial-ups. I've always preferred multiple instances of IE
over doing a lot of
>foward and back stuff, and this might also solve that,
also. Alas, I'm a
>die-hard IE user. I *have* to for many reasons, and I'm
getting to where
>trying to run two different browsers just isn't as fun as
it used to be,
><g>. Maybe I'll put it on one of my test-beds when I get
them back in
>harness.
>
>No need to perform the real-estate test. My day, too, is
well-booked
>already. Cleaning up the blown spring flowers, chopping
out the dead peach
>tree, bathing the herd of poodles, maybe even get around
to re-setting a
>sadly leaning gatepost in concrete if I get real
ambitious, <g>.
>
>And that's only *after* I get my weekly fix of Stuart
McLean's Vinyl Cafe,
>Canada's version of Prairie Home Theater.
http://www.cbc.ca/vinylcafe/ It's
>a Saturday night program, I believe, but we listen to it
on Sundays out of
>Radio One North, Whitehorse, my wife's hometown, so she
can catch up on the
>doings there afterwards. Unfortunately, that means the
only medium is
>RealPlayer, but I put up with it for this one program.
>
>On in 15 minutes at
http://north.cbc.ca/north/media/whitlive.ram
>
>Have fun planting. Probably my favorite part of
gardening, The rest is just
>work!
>
>--
>Gary S. Terhune
>MS MVP for Win9x
>
>"Mostly Me (MM)" > wrote in message
...
>> Gary S. Terhune wrote:
>> > "Tabbed browsing"? I know I should know this, but
please explain, or
>post a
>> > good link? Navigating IE windows using Taskbar
buttons can be a pain,
>but
>> > I'm not sure I want any more real estate being
absorbed by anything
>else. I
>> > like as much to be visible on the screen as possible,
instead of
>scrolling
>> > blindly around, and I've already got my resolution at
1152x864 on a 19"
>> > screen--rather too small for my aging eyes.
>> >
>>
>> Hi,
>> I know what you mean about screen real estate-- I hate
giving up
>> precious pixels. I'm so anal about it, I even auto-hide
the task bar.
>> Some of those browsers and "tool bars" that certain
ISPs provide-I have
>> to wonder how people deal with it- all that extra crap
and you end up
>> with a 400x300 window to view a web page (OK, that's a
slight
>> exaggeration). Try to read a news article and end up
getting a headache
>> trying to stay focused on a sentence because of the
constant scrolling,
>> horizontally and vertically.
>>
>> Well, anyway, here's an explanation of tabbed browsing:
>> http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/why/#tab-
browsing
>>
>> If you like, post a web page you're familiar with and
I'll visit it,
>> open up some tabs, then take and post a screen-shot so
you can get a
>> more realistic view of what kind of space you'd be
giving up, at least
>> at 1024x768 resolution. But later though, the ground is
finally dry
>> enough to plant some sweet corn, so my afternoon is
booked.
>>
>> mm
>
>.
>

[Gary S. Terhune]

It is actually a semi-dwarfed "Fruit Cocktail" tree, that my wife got from
some catalog. (My wife is from a land where the entire growing season is
about three months long, tops, and she goes a little overboard these days,
<s>.) Planted it about 4 years ago last autumn (this would have been its
fourth growing season.) Supposed to have five varieties grafted onto some
kind of peach root stock. Peach, nectarine, apricot and two kinds of plum.
Only the peach and apricot survived transportation and the first year, and
the apricot branches never produced (not good climate for that), though
their growth was disgustingly vigorous. Got two *beautiful* peaches the
first year, and pretty much nothing the second. Then a ton of peaches that
failed to ripen last year, probably because A. Wife refused to previously
allow me to prune properly, and B. Vicious canker infestation, partly the
result of A..

This year, I pruned vigorously and the apricot bloomed during a ludicrous
heat wave in March that reached beyond 80 degrees for several days, then
everything was killed off by freezing and snow in April. We're at 3500 feet
in the northern Sierras, and this weather pattern isn't unusual except in
the extreme that it presented this year and how early it came. Anyway, the
peach never even bloomed, and while there are suckers sprouting from the
root stock, I'm not sure I want to deal with any more canker and it's not
that easy to get rid of once it's gotten to where this one is. While
trimming it back to have only peach nubs is something I've considered, I
would really prefer to just give up on it and get a couple of new dwarf
peaches for wine-barrel planting and a couple of plums to go with them,
those being the only two fruits that we're interested in, other than the two
dwarf apple trees I already have in barrels.

Besides, in late '02 I planted two American Chestnuts about ten feet either
side of the "peach" tree, and while they simply rooted in last year, and are
still only two feet high, they are really beefing up this year and will
probably shade out the "peach" tree within six to ten years, anyway. Hey,
we're talking about a south-facing front yard measuring 50x20 ft.. Kinda
crowded when you consider there's a sycamore at the other end that started
as a heavily damaged sapling when we bought in '99 and is now going on 30 ft
high, <bg>.

Only my intense love of creative procrastination will save that peach tree.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Win9x

"ppoatt" > wrote in message
...
> Are you sure the peach tree is dead? It has been known for
> those to go dormant for a year or 2 and come back. Had one
> years ago loose all it's leaves in july and not leaf out
> again until the second spring after. I didn't cut it down
> for the reason it was holding up one end of my hammock.
> Trim all the limbs back to nubs.Seal the ends. Let it
> stand. Peaches only produce on new growth anyway.

[ppoatt]

If it's one of them hybrid concoctions you might as well
cut it down.
I have around 200 hickory and oak. Anywhere from 30 to 70
feet high. Got some flowering pear and redbuds 2 springs
ago. They where about twig size. Last year they put on
leaves but didn't grow much. But this year the pears grew
about 4 feet and the redbuds branched and bushed out.
I was thinking about planting fruit bearing trees. But my
neighbor is in love with these scrub cedar trees. Other
than being a green can of gasoline. They have and cause
rust. Which fruit trees are prone to get sick from rust.
Until I figure a way to get rid of the cedars without me
being suspected of espionage. I will forgo the thought of
planting any.
Anyway with all the nut trees. I have about 20 squirrels
living at my place at any given time. They're fun to watch.
Plus the fallen twigs from the hickory trees makes for
good taste in Bar-B-Qing.
>-----Original Message-----
>It is actually a semi-dwarfed "Fruit Cocktail" tree, that
my wife got from
>some catalog. (My wife is from a land where the entire
growing season is
>about three months long, tops, and she goes a little
overboard these days,
><s>.) Planted it about 4 years ago last autumn (this
would have been its
>fourth growing season.) Supposed to have five varieties
grafted onto some
>kind of peach root stock. Peach, nectarine, apricot and
two kinds of plum.
>Only the peach and apricot survived transportation and
the first year, and
>the apricot branches never produced (not good climate for
that), though
>their growth was disgustingly vigorous. Got two
*beautiful* peaches the
>first year, and pretty much nothing the second. Then a
ton of peaches that
>failed to ripen last year, probably because A. Wife
refused to previously
>allow me to prune properly, and B. Vicious canker
infestation, partly the
>result of A..
>
>This year, I pruned vigorously and the apricot bloomed
during a ludicrous
>heat wave in March that reached beyond 80 degrees for
several days, then
>everything was killed off by freezing and snow in April.
We're at 3500 feet
>in the northern Sierras, and this weather pattern isn't
unusual except in
>the extreme that it presented this year and how early it
came. Anyway, the
>peach never even bloomed, and while there are suckers
sprouting from the
>root stock, I'm not sure I want to deal with any more
canker and it's not
>that easy to get rid of once it's gotten to where this
one is. While
>trimming it back to have only peach nubs is something
I've considered, I
>would really prefer to just give up on it and get a
couple of new dwarf
>peaches for wine-barrel planting and a couple of plums to
go with them,
>those being the only two fruits that we're interested in,
other than the two
>dwarf apple trees I already have in barrels.
>
>Besides, in late '02 I planted two American Chestnuts
about ten feet either
>side of the "peach" tree, and while they simply rooted in
last year, and are
>still only two feet high, they are really beefing up this
year and will
>probably shade out the "peach" tree within six to ten
years, anyway. Hey,
>we're talking about a south-facing front yard measuring
50x20 ft.. Kinda
>crowded when you consider there's a sycamore at the other
end that started
>as a heavily damaged sapling when we bought in '99 and is
now going on 30 ft
>high, <bg>.
>
>Only my intense love of creative procrastination will
save that peach tree.
>
>--
>Gary S. Terhune
>MS MVP for Win9x
>
>"ppoatt" > wrote in
message
...
>> Are you sure the peach tree is dead? It has been known
for
>> those to go dormant for a year or 2 and come back. Had
one
>> years ago loose all it's leaves in july and not leaf out
>> again until the second spring after. I didn't cut it
down
>> for the reason it was holding up one end of my hammock.
>> Trim all the limbs back to nubs.Seal the ends. Let it
>> stand. Peaches only produce on new growth anyway.
>
>.
>

[Gary S. Terhune]

Scrub cedar... I feel your pain. Good luck making them disappear.

Squirrels... GEICO commercial!

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Win9x

"ppoatt" > wrote in message
...
> If it's one of them hybrid concoctions you might as well
> cut it down.
> I have around 200 hickory and oak. Anywhere from 30 to 70
> feet high. Got some flowering pear and redbuds 2 springs
> ago. They where about twig size. Last year they put on
> leaves but didn't grow much. But this year the pears grew
> about 4 feet and the redbuds branched and bushed out.
> I was thinking about planting fruit bearing trees. But my
> neighbor is in love with these scrub cedar trees. Other
> than being a green can of gasoline. They have and cause
> rust. Which fruit trees are prone to get sick from rust.
> Until I figure a way to get rid of the cedars without me
> being suspected of espionage. I will forgo the thought of
> planting any.
> Anyway with all the nut trees. I have about 20 squirrels
> living at my place at any given time. They're fun to watch.
> Plus the fallen twigs from the hickory trees makes for
> good taste in Bar-B-Qing.