No motherboard chipset driver -> will AGP or PCIe video card driverfunction?

[98 Guy]

If we're dealing with an ASUS 8NI motherboard:

http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=1&model=382&l1=3&l2=15&l3=148

with chipset: NVIDIA nForce 4 SLI MCP

How likely is it that if running windows 98 I'd be able to get an Nvidia
6600 PCIe video card to work (presumably at anything higher than 640 x
460 x 16 colors) if I didn't actually install the chipset drivers
(because there aren't any for win-98) ???

Even if there are "tweaked" nvidia drivers that allow PCIe boards to
function under win-98?

Isin't a chipset driver (either the north or south bridge) necessary to
fully install either the AGP or PCIe video driver?

[Don Phillipson[_5_]]

"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...

> If we're dealing with an ASUS 8NI motherboard:
> http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=1&model=382&l1=3&l2=15&l3=148
> with chipset: NVIDIA nForce 4 SLI MCP
>
> How likely is it that if running windows 98 I'd be able to get an Nvidia
> 6600 PCIe video card to work (presumably at anything higher than 640 x
> 460 x 16 colors) if I didn't actually install the chipset drivers
> (because there aren't any for win-98) ???

You have picked up this animal by the wrong end.
If we want to run Win98 on any PC for which no
legacy provisions exist, we need first to instal an
operating system that activates all the hardware
(such as XP) and then instal Win98 as a Virtual PC.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[98 Guy]

Don Phillipson wrote:

> You have picked up this animal by the wrong end.
> If we want to run Win98 on any PC for which no
> legacy provisions exist, we need first to instal an
> operating system that activates all the hardware
> (such as XP) and then instal Win98 as a Virtual PC.

That's a general comment that wipes away the details of my original
question.

Can a (win-98) video card driver (for a VGA or PCIe video card) be fully
operable on a system running win-98 if there is no installed win-98
driver for the motherboard chipset?

[teebo]

> with an ASUS 8NI motherboard: with chipset: NVIDIA nForce 4 SLI MCP
> How likely is it that if running windows 98 I'd be able to get an Nvidia
> 6600 PCIe video card to work (presumably at anything higher than 640 x
> 460 x 16 colors) if I didn't actually install the chipset drivers

obviously javispedro succeeded somehow...
if I understand right, only thing he used was
the patched nForce 3 network driver and the
normal tweaked nvidia driver...
I suppose the motherboard is compatible with
win98's builtin support for AGP or something?


but for other computers where you are not as lucky
it should be possible to run with some vesa-driver
instead? it will not be accelerated and 3D but
get full resolution...


> Even if there are "tweaked" nvidia drivers that allow PCIe boards to
> function under win-98?

well a good™ graphics driver wouldn't need any motherboard driver
installed too but instead do all the work by itself :-)
but I don't think nvidias drivers are of that kind....

> Isn't a chipset driver (either the north or south bridge) necessary to
> fully install either the AGP or PCIe video driver?

yeah I thought so too (northbridge I believe). anyone here that knows
more about how things work?


btw, when looking at the list at the end of tha page
http://www.yournewdriver.com/NVIDIA_R_nForce_TM_nForce4_series_Chipset_Drivers_ 6886.htm
does it means that it do support some parts of nForce4 with win98
(not raid, and audio requires winME?)

[philo]

"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
> If we're dealing with an ASUS 8NI motherboard:
>
> http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=1&model=382&l1=3&l2=15&l3=148
>
> with chipset: NVIDIA nForce 4 SLI MCP
>
> How likely is it that if running windows 98 I'd be able to get an Nvidia
> 6600 PCIe video card to work (presumably at anything higher than 640 x
> 460 x 16 colors) if I didn't actually install the chipset drivers
> (because there aren't any for win-98) ???
>
> Even if there are "tweaked" nvidia drivers that allow PCIe boards to
> function under win-98?
>
> Isin't a chipset driver (either the north or south bridge) necessary to
> fully install either the AGP or PCIe video driver?

Nvidia does have a "universal" installer for the 6600 video card (about a 40
meg download)

http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Scan.aspx?lang=en-us


it will *probably* work on your machine even without the chipset drivers for
your motherboard.


I'd give it a try and see what happens. Win98 should install pretty fast on
that machine...
so you won't be wasting too much time if it turns out not to work.


It's been my experience with Nvidia that you simply run the video card
installer
and it will detect and install the appropriate driver for your OS.

[jamesron]

"98 Guy" wrote:

> If we're dealing with an ASUS 8NI motherboard:
>
> http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=1&model=382&l1=3&l2=15&l3=148
>
> with chipset: NVIDIA nForce 4 SLI MCP
>
> How likely is it that if running windows 98 I'd be able to get an Nvidia
> 6600 PCIe video card to work (presumably at anything higher than 640 x
> 460 x 16 colors) if I didn't actually install the chipset drivers
> (because there aren't any for win-98) ???
>
> Even if there are "tweaked" nvidia drivers that allow PCIe boards to
> function under win-98?
>
> Isin't a chipset driver (either the north or south bridge) necessary to
> fully install either the AGP or PCIe video driver?
>
16 colors or true colors is no matter at all, its still show Picture, unless
your card faulty, or open up your PC and take out video card slot, & put back
in/out few time,
then try again maybe you got lucky

[98 Guy]

jamesron wrote:

> > Isin't a chipset driver (either the north or south bridge)
> > necessary to fully install either the AGP or PCIe video driver?
>
> 16 colors or true colors is no matter at all, its still show
> Picture,

But the difference between 16-color VGA mode and 32-bit modes with
higher resolution *is the matter*.

You can install win-98 with any video card, and until the card-specific
drivers are installed, all you're likely to get is plain 16-color VGA
mode.

Hence my question -> are the chipset drivers necessary for the video
card drivers to operate properly, such that the user can set the display
mode to something beyond 16-color vga mode.

The answer (at least in the case of a system with ASUS 8NI motherboard
with nForce 4 SLI chipset) is that an Nvidia PCIe 6600 vga card will
function properly (ie full win-98 driver support) even without chipset
drivers being present.

The fact that the card in question is PCIe (not just AGP) is even more
"interesting", given that the threads I've been following pertaining to
win-98 and PCIe video cards (Nvidia cards anyways) suggests that the
odds of getting an Nvidia PCIe card to work on win-98 is less than 50-50
- even when chipset drivers are available and installed.

[teebo]

> Nvidia does have a "universal" installer for the 6600 video card (about
> a 40 meg download)
> http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Scan.aspx?lang=en-us

is it possible to download that 40MB file without using
internet explorer?

in neither of my web browsers the page works... in firefox it stops at
a message "Scanning System... Click here if the scan did not complete."
(and if I click, I just get the same message again)

> it will *probably* work on your machine even without the chipset drivers
> for your motherboard.

Nice of them to make a graphic driver that just works (at least for
motherboards with nvidias chipset and some others)

Now if I just could download the thing....

[philo]

"teebo" > wrote in message news:op.ulemd3hsbr8ivg@300pl...
>
> > Nvidia does have a "universal" installer for the 6600 video card (about
> > a 40 meg download)
> > http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Scan.aspx?lang=en-us
>
> is it possible to download that 40MB file without using
> internet explorer?
>
> in neither of my web browsers the page works... in firefox it stops at
> a message "Scanning System... Click here if the scan did not complete."
> (and if I click, I just get the same message again)
>
> > it will *probably* work on your machine even without the chipset drivers
> > for your motherboard.
>
> Nice of them to make a graphic driver that just works (at least for
> motherboards with nvidias chipset and some others)
>
> Now if I just could download the thing....
>
>


Although I did not specifically try to download that file...
it does say that it requires IE, Firefox or Netscape...

Before I got to the page I had to allow it to install a plug-in.

Some folks don't like plug-in's but I am one who lives on the edge <G>


What did Teddy Roosevelt say anyway:

Download quietly

but carry a big backup !

[98 Guy]

philo wrote:

> > > Nvidia does have a "universal" installer for the 6600 video
> > > card (about a 40 meg download)

> > > http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Scan.aspx?lang=en-us

> > is it possible to download that 40MB file without using
> > internet explorer?

> > Now if I just could download the thing....
>
> Although I did not specifically try to download that file...
> it does say that it requires IE, Firefox or Netscape...

Philo claims the following link:

http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Scan.aspx?lang=en-us

is a "universal installer" for "6600 video card", but what it really is
is a link to an activeX or Java control that performs some sort of
automated video hardware detection mechanism and presumably would also
kick-in an automatic download of the required Nvidia driver.

When I go through the typical Nvidia download-driver proceedure, and
select:

Product type: GeForce
Product series: GeForce series 6
Operating system: Windows 98
Language: English (US)

Then (search), I end up here:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/win9x_81.98.html

Windows 9x/ME
ForceWare Release 80
Version: 81.98
Release Date: December 21, 2005

Primary download site:

http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/81.98/81.98_forceware_win9x_english.exe

Perhaps that is what Philo is identifying as a "universal installer" for
"6600 video card" - I don't know.

PS: This link:

http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Scan.aspx?lang=en-us

Results in an attempt to download a java applet called:

name: SRLApplet
publisher: Husdawg, LLC
from: htto://www.nvidia.com

I choose to download it (what the hell). After a minute or two, the
applet started to show some signs of life, and then I got this:

The NVIDIA Smart Scan was unable to evaluate your system
hardware. Please use Option 1 to manually find drivers
for your NVIDIA products. return_status:fail

The display adapter on the system I'm currently using is:

Nvidia GeForce4 MX 440, AGP8X

No idea why the applet is failing...

[philo]

"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
> philo wrote:
>
> > > > Nvidia does have a "universal" installer for the 6600 video
> > > > card (about a 40 meg download)
>
> > > > http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Scan.aspx?lang=en-us
>
> > > is it possible to download that 40MB file without using
> > > internet explorer?
>
> > > Now if I just could download the thing....
> >
> > Although I did not specifically try to download that file...
> > it does say that it requires IE, Firefox or Netscape...
>
> Philo claims the following link:
>
> http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Scan.aspx?lang=en-us
>
> is a "universal installer" for "6600 video card", but what it really is
> is a link to an activeX or Java control that performs some sort of
> automated video hardware detection mechanism and presumably would also
> kick-in an automatic download of the required Nvidia driver.
>

Yes it did work for me

but I had to allow the Husdawg LLC plug in
which of course needs a compliant browser

which they claim is IE, Firefox of Netscape.

On my machine with Nvidia video,
it just detected it and went on to the driver download...

however I tried it on a machine without an Nvidia video card
and it does not proceed on to the driver download site.

I certainly don't like the way they do things...
but I suppose it's made for people who don't know what the hell they are
downloading





> When I go through the typical Nvidia download-driver proceedure, and
> select:
>
> Product type: GeForce
> Product series: GeForce series 6
> Operating system: Windows 98
> Language: English (US)
>
> Then (search), I end up here:
>
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/win9x_81.98.html
>
> Windows 9x/ME
> ForceWare Release 80
> Version: 81.98
> Release Date: December 21, 2005
>
> Primary download site:
>
> http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/81.98/81.98_forceware_win9x_english.exe
>
> Perhaps that is what Philo is identifying as a "universal installer" for
> "6600 video card" - I don't know.
>
> PS: This link:
>
> http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Scan.aspx?lang=en-us
>
> Results in an attempt to download a java applet called:
>
> name: SRLApplet
> publisher: Husdawg, LLC
> from: htto://www.nvidia.com
>
> I choose to download it (what the hell). After a minute or two, the
> applet started to show some signs of life, and then I got this:
>
> The NVIDIA Smart Scan was unable to evaluate your system
> hardware. Please use Option 1 to manually find drivers
> for your NVIDIA products. return_status:fail
>
> The display adapter on the system I'm currently using is:
>
> Nvidia GeForce4 MX 440, AGP8X
>
> No idea why the applet is failing...

[philo]

<snipped>
>
> When I go through the typical Nvidia download-driver proceedure, and
> select:
>
> Product type: GeForce
> Product series: GeForce series 6
> Operating system: Windows 98
> Language: English (US)
>
> Then (search), I end up here:
>
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/win9x_81.98.html
>
> Windows 9x/ME
> ForceWare Release 80
> Version: 81.98
> Release Date: December 21, 2005
>
> Primary download site:
>
> http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/81.98/81.98_forceware_win9x_english.exe
>
> Perhaps that is what Philo is identifying as a "universal installer" for
> "6600 video card" - I don't know.
>
> PS: This link:
>
> http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Scan.aspx?lang=en-us
>
> Results in an attempt to download a java applet called:
>
> name: SRLApplet
> publisher: Husdawg, LLC
> from: htto://www.nvidia.com
>
> I choose to download it (what the hell). After a minute or two, the
> applet started to show some signs of life, and then I got this:
>
> The NVIDIA Smart Scan was unable to evaluate your system
> hardware. Please use Option 1 to manually find drivers
> for your NVIDIA products. return_status:fail
>
> The display adapter on the system I'm currently using is:
>
> Nvidia GeForce4 MX 440, AGP8X
>
> No idea why the applet is failing...



I just went here and got the win98 driver


http://www.nvidia.com/object/win9x_81.98.html

I had to click on the agreement first
then the download started

The browser I was using was K-Meleon

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message >, 98 Guy > writes
[]
>Hence my question -> are the chipset drivers necessary for the video
>card drivers to operate properly, such that the user can set the display
>mode to something beyond 16-color vga mode.
[]
I _think_ I've had a system give me more than 16 colour 640x480 by
selecting one of the _other_ options from the _generic_ list (something
like "expanded VGA card" or similar). I think I've also had this
approach _not_ work; probably depends on the particular hardware
present.

I have a feeling (too long ago now) that it may not have given me all
the card in question was capable of, but definitely more colours and
pixels than the default.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **

"Usenet is a way of being annoyed by people you otherwise never would have
met."
- John J. Kinyon

[98 Guy]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

> > are the chipset drivers necessary for the video card drivers to
> > operate properly, such that the user can set the display
> > mode to something beyond 16-color vga mode.

> I _think_ I've had a system give me more than 16 colour 640x480
> by selecting one of the _other_ options from the _generic_ list...
> I think I've also had this approach _not_ work;

Perhaps this is related - but is win-98 safe mode capable of anything
other than 640 x 480 x 16?

[teebo]

> Perhaps this is related - but is win-98 safe mode capable of anything
> other than 640 x 480 x 16?

yes, there is more talk about using higher resolution in safe mode here:
http://www.msfn.org/board/Improving-Windows-98-sa-t69569.html
but you only get 60 Hz refresh rate?
when I read about the vesa-driver at
http://bearwindows.boot-land.net/vbe9x.htm
it says that video bios refresh rate code is absent/faulty for
modern ati/nvidia graphic cards :-(
but ok I guess one isn't using safe mode for longer periods anyway...


the system.cb (that should be merged with c:\windows\system.cb)
in SVGA.zip at msfn says:

[boot]
386grabber=vgadib.3gr
display.drv=svga256.drv

[386Enh]
display=vddsvga.386

[svga256.drv]
dpi=96
resolution=3
LatchCapable=Yes
svgamode=56