shift-delete not working the _first_ time

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

I usually delete files (folders too) with shift-delete rather than
delete; you know, so it says "are you sure you want to permanently
delete" rather than "are you sure you want to ... recycle bin" (and with
a different icon).

Thing is, nearly always, it doesn't work first time: it usually comes up
with the recycle bin prompt. To which I say no, then shift-delete again,
and it comes up with the right one.

It's only on this one machine, and I'm pretty certain it _isn't_ a dodgy
shift key - my fingers move very little between the first attempt that
fails and the second that succeeds.

Any idea what's causing it?

(I know I could change it - I know there's a setting somewhere, though I
can't remember where - so that plain delete did a permanent delete. It's
just puzzling.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

"Bother," said Pooh, as Windows crashed for the umpteenth time.

[Brian A.]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" > wrote in message
...
>I usually delete files (folders too) with shift-delete rather than delete; you
>know, so it says "are you sure you want to permanently delete" rather than "are
>you sure you want to ... recycle bin" (and with a different icon).
>
> Thing is, nearly always, it doesn't work first time: it usually comes up with
> the recycle bin prompt. To which I say no, then shift-delete again, and it
> comes up with the right one.
>
> It's only on this one machine, and I'm pretty certain it _isn't_ a dodgy shift
> key - my fingers move very little between the first attempt that fails and the
> second that succeeds.
>
> Any idea what's causing it?
>
> (I know I could change it - I know there's a setting somewhere, though I can't
> remember where - so that plain delete did a permanent delete. It's just
> puzzling.)
> --
> J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985
> MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
> ** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs.
> **
>
> "Bother," said Pooh, as Windows crashed for the umpteenth time.

Right click on the recycle bin.
Click Properties in the popup menu.
Select "Do not move files to......".
Your choice to select if you want to be prompted or not.
Click Apply > Ok when done.

--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

[thanatoid]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" > wrote in
:

> I usually delete files (folders too) with shift-delete
> rather than delete; you know, so it says "are you sure you
> want to permanently delete" rather than "are you sure you
> want to ... recycle bin" (and with a different icon).
>
> Thing is, nearly always, it doesn't work first time: it
> usually comes up with the recycle bin prompt. To which I
> say no, then shift-delete again, and it comes up with the
> right one.
>
> It's only on this one machine, and I'm pretty certain it
> _isn't_ a dodgy shift key - my fingers move very little
> between the first attempt that fails and the second that
> succeeds.
>
> Any idea what's causing it?
>
> (I know I could change it - I know there's a setting
> somewhere, though I can't remember where - so that plain
> delete did a permanent delete. It's just puzzling.)

It's about time you visited www.ghisler.com
(The program found there also shows you "individual" /along
with/ "total" file copy/move times.)

There is a free ripoff called FreeCommander. But the Ghisler
original works forever in demo mode if you don't want to spend
the 30 or 40 bucks.

I couldn't live without it.


--
Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the
votes decide everything.
- Josef Stalin

[diver]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" > wrote in message
...
> I usually delete files (folders too) with shift-delete rather than
> delete; you know, so it says "are you sure you want to permanently
> delete" rather than "are you sure you want to ... recycle bin" (and with
> a different icon).

primarily (imho) shift is to allow you to select 2 or more files in given situations,, for
instance, if there are ten files in your recycle bin or sent folder in outlook xpress or in
'some folder' in windows explorer, you can hightlight the first to be deleted then hit shift and
scroll down and capture as many as you want;;; then right click on any hightlighted one and
select 'delete',,, and they will all be deleted.
you can do the same using the 'ctrl' key,, exect you pick each file individually while holder
ctrl key down,,,, so you can randomly pick files within a folder etc.


>
> Thing is, nearly always, it doesn't work first time: it usually comes up
> with the recycle bin prompt. To which I say no, then shift-delete again,
> and it comes up with the right one.
>
> It's only on this one machine, and I'm pretty certain it _isn't_ a dodgy
> shift key - my fingers move very little between the first attempt that
> fails and the second that succeeds.
>
> Any idea what's causing it?
>
> (I know I could change it - I know there's a setting somewhere, though I
> can't remember where - so that plain delete did a permanent delete. It's
> just puzzling.)

not true friend....
deleting a file or folder doesnt 'permanently' delete it;; if you want something permanently
'deleted', then you use a 'shredding' utility,, plenty of them out there if you wanna look.
the one i use is even easier than using 'r/bin'. go figure..! (and its always right there on my
context-menu no matter where i am at the time on the computer,, soo simple)

Hth's


> --
> J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
> ** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **
>
> "Bother," said Pooh, as Windows crashed for the umpteenth time.

[teebo]

> deleting a file or folder doesnt 'permanently' delete it;; if you want
> something permanently 'deleted', then you use a 'shredding' utility,,

I always turn off the trashcan, perhaps because a bit of
"macintoshofobia" or maybe that I think it is a stupid concept.
The reason I delete files is that I want to free space on the harddisk,
not move the files.
But I think Undo still could be usefull... in that "Oops!" situation....
Just like I can use Edit-Undo to undo a move or rename of files, I would
like
to have that for just deleted files too. without trashcan.

So anyone know of that kind of utility or patch, that can do this?
That when pressing Delete, the files do gets really deleted, but the
first letter in the filename that normally gets wasted is temporary
saved (until I do next undoable thing), so that Undo works automaticly
if needed. If a file is fragmented I guess the fat-chain for that file
have to be remembered too but most files are not.


btw, anyone know how to patch windows filemanager to accept shift-Del
as "cut" like in all other programs?

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message >, Brian A.
> writes
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" > wrote in message
...
[]
>> (I know I could change it - I know there's a setting somewhere,
>>though I can't remember where - so that plain delete did a permanent
>>delete. It's just puzzling.)
[]
> Right click on the recycle bin.
>Click Properties in the popup menu.
>Select "Do not move files to......".
>Your choice to select if you want to be prompted or not.
>Click Apply > Ok when done.
>
Thanks, you've reminded me where the setting is if I wanted to make that
always the case. Doesn't explain why I am getting the strange behaviour
(shift being ignored, but only the first time) in the first place
though.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

This area of 'when does a computer know that it doesn't know' is relatively
undeveloped. - Colin Barker (Computing, 1999-2-18 [p. 20])

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message >, thanatoid
> writes
[]
>It's about time you visited www.ghisler.com
>(The program found there also shows you "individual" /along
>with/ "total" file copy/move times.)
>
>There is a free ripoff called FreeCommander. But the Ghisler
>original works forever in demo mode if you don't want to spend
>the 30 or 40 bucks.
>
>I couldn't live without it.
>
>
So you keep telling me (-:. But I am just curious to know why the shift
in shift-delete is being ignored the first time only.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

This area of 'when does a computer know that it doesn't know' is relatively
undeveloped. - Colin Barker (Computing, 1999-2-18 [p. 20])

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message >, diver
> writes
>
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" > wrote in message
...
>> I usually delete files (folders too) with shift-delete rather than
>> delete; you know, so it says "are you sure you want to permanently
>> delete" rather than "are you sure you want to ... recycle bin" (and with
>> a different icon).
>
> primarily (imho) shift is to allow you to select 2 or more files in
>given situations,, for
[]
>you can do the same using the 'ctrl' key,, exect you pick each file
>individually while holder
>ctrl key down,,,, so you can randomly pick files within a folder etc.
>
Yes, I know the shift and control with click; that's a different matter,
and is for selecting files. Once you've selected them (one or many, with
or without the shift and/or control keys), if you use shift while
pressing the delete key, they are deleted rather than put into the
recycle bin.
>
>>
>> Thing is, nearly always, it doesn't work first time: it usually comes up
>> with the recycle bin prompt. To which I say no, then shift-delete again,
>> and it comes up with the right one.
>>
>> It's only on this one machine, and I'm pretty certain it _isn't_ a dodgy
>> shift key - my fingers move very little between the first attempt that
>> fails and the second that succeeds.
>>
>> Any idea what's causing it?
>>
>> (I know I could change it - I know there's a setting somewhere, though I
>> can't remember where - so that plain delete did a permanent delete. It's
>> just puzzling.)
>
>not true friend....
>deleting a file or folder doesnt 'permanently' delete it;; if you
[]
Yes, I know that too, friend; I have an overwrite utility if I want. I
meant delete as in not just recycle.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

This area of 'when does a computer know that it doesn't know' is relatively
undeveloped. - Colin Barker (Computing, 1999-2-18 [p. 20])

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <op.uikoapr2br8ivg@300pl>, teebo > writes
>> deleting a file or folder doesnt 'permanently' delete it;; if you
>>want something permanently 'deleted', then you use a 'shredding'
>>utility,,
>
>I always turn off the trashcan, perhaps because a bit of
>"macintoshofobia" or maybe that I think it is a stupid concept.
>The reason I delete files is that I want to free space on the harddisk,
>not move the files.

Agreed. I _usually_ use shift-delete for that reason.

>But I think Undo still could be usefull... in that "Oops!" situation....
[]
>So anyone know of that kind of utility or patch, that can do this?

(Sorry, no.)
[]
>btw, anyone know how to patch windows filemanager to accept shift-Del
>as "cut" like in all other programs?

I didn't know it did; I use Ctrl-X, C, V for cut, copy, paste. (Think of
X as looking like a pair of scissors, C for copy, and, well, v is just
the next key along.) [Do you actually mean file manager rather than
Windows Explorer? I have found one other person who still uses file
manager, but it's unusual.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

This area of 'when does a computer know that it doesn't know' is relatively
undeveloped. - Colin Barker (Computing, 1999-2-18 [p. 20])

[FromTheRafters[_2_]]

Have you tried a different keyboard to see if the problem
is there too? Such a test might illuminate an investigative
path.

[teebo]

>> The reason I delete files is that I want to free space on the harddisk,
>> not move the files.
>
> Agreed. I _usually_ use shift-delete for that reason.

>> So anyone know of that kind of utility or patch, that can do this?
>
> (Sorry, no.)

I guess I have to do that myself then hehehe.
There must be someone that have made an opensource windows shell
replacement
that still looks and works in the normal way, that can be modified ...

>> btw, anyone know how to patch windows filemanager to accept shift-Del
>> as "cut" like in all other programs?
>
> I didn't know it did; I use Ctrl-X, C, V for cut, copy, paste.

yeah the right hand keys for cut/paste/copy
shift-Del, shift-Ins, ctrl-Ins is the windows original ones,
and the left handed ones ctrl-X, ctrl-V, ctrl-C, is copied
from mac :-) and are better for people that have
their right hand glued to the mouse :-D

> the next key along.) [Do you actually mean file manager rather than
> Windows Explorer? I have found one other person who still uses file
> manager, but it's unusual.]

oh.. no I mean "Windows Explorer" but it isn't called that in this
language version of windows. And the only time it is called anything at all
is when you use the localmenu-command to open a folder in a new window,
and then it is a verb (is it to "explore" and "exploring" in english?).
Btw if you ctrl-doubleclick (or ctrl-Enter) instead, then you don't get
that ugly directory tree panel :)

Bad idea of microsoft to name two things the same anyway. since the file
managing part of windows is called explorer.exe they had to name their
webbrowser iexplore.exe instead.
isn't Explorer some alcohol... could be why internet explorer is so bad ;-)

Is the old win3.x-file manager winfile.exe really still around?
I allways used nortoncommander instead back then....

[thanatoid]

teebo > wrote in news:op.uikoapr2br8ivg@300pl:

>> deleting a file or folder doesnt 'permanently' delete it;;
>> if you want something permanently 'deleted', then you use
>> a 'shredding' utility,,

<SNIP>

www.ghisler.com

Needs a little tweaking since it has a few idiosyncrasies but
you will NEVER use any Windows "file manager" again. They're
nothing but torture devices.



--
Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the
votes decide everything.
- Josef Stalin

[thanatoid]

teebo > wrote in news:op.uikoapr2br8ivg@300pl:

>>btw, anyone know how to patch windows filemanager to accept
>>shift-Del as "cut" like in all other programs?

That's a very old shortcut which has been abandoned by most
software writers in favor of Ctl-C,V,X.



--
Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the
votes decide everything.
- Josef Stalin

[thanatoid]

teebo > wrote in news:op.uik3ckvebr8ivg@300pl:

<SNIP>

> Is the old win3.x-file manager winfile.exe really still
> around? I allways used nortoncommander instead back
> then....

The program from Ghisler is /based/ on Norton and it does
hundreds of other things you will NOT believe. It works forever
in trial mode but it's well worth paying for. You will never use
a Windows torture device again.



--
Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the
votes decide everything.
- Josef Stalin

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message >, thanatoid
> writes
[]
>If it has happened 1,000 out of 1,000 times, then you have a
>buggy key(s) which has a strangely consistent behavior. Did you
>try another keyboard?

I can't remember if I have or not, but as it's a laptop, that's not
really a viable solution, unless I could get a replacement for such an
old laptop.
>
>If it ONLY happens in a certain program (perhaps a MS program?
>;-) then it's the program.
>Try the identical action in another program which does basically
>the same thing.

It's only when deleting files/folders in Windows Explorer.
[]
>If none of the above, then it is a mystery which no one will
>probably be able to ever solve. I have run across quite a few in
>my computing life, as has almost everyone.

Me too (-:
[]
>Has it ALWAYS been like this or did it just start? If it just
>started, it may also "just" end. Try changing the date on the
>computer by a few months or a year or whatever and see if it
>disappears.

For some time (some years I think). Not enough of a problem to be really
irritating.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. -Voltaire (1694-1778)

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <op.uik3ckvebr8ivg@300pl>, teebo > writes
[]
>oh.. no I mean "Windows Explorer" but it isn't called that in this
>language version of windows. And the only time it is called anything at all
>is when you use the localmenu-command to open a folder in a new window,
>and then it is a verb (is it to "explore" and "exploring" in english?).
>Btw if you ctrl-doubleclick (or ctrl-Enter) instead, then you don't get
>that ugly directory tree panel :)

I call it up with Windows-E keys. Then it opens at My Computer, i. e.
the top level, not in an obscure Windows directory.
>
>Bad idea of microsoft to name two things the same anyway. since the file

Yes, I've always thought that.

>managing part of windows is called explorer.exe they had to name their
>webbrowser iexplore.exe instead.
>isn't Explorer some alcohol... could be why internet explorer is so bad ;-)

Not that I can think of ...
>
>Is the old win3.x-file manager winfile.exe really still around?
>I allways used nortoncommander instead back then....

Start | Run | winfile | wallow in nostalgia ... it even still only uses
8.3 filenames ... (No, I don't use it!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. -Voltaire (1694-1778)

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message >, FromTheRafters
> writes
>Have you tried a different keyboard to see if the problem
>is there too? Such a test might illuminate an investigative
>path.
>
>
The thing is, it always works the second time; also, I'm not aware of
the shift keys giving any problem in any other situation - THEY DO
CAPITALS NO PROBLEM, for example; it's _only_ when deleting files in
Windows Explorer, and _only_ the first time I try to delete one, that
the shift key is ignored.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. -Voltaire (1694-1778)

[FromTheRafters[_2_]]

[snip]

>>Is the old win3.x-file manager winfile.exe really still around?
>>I allways used nortoncommander instead back then....
>
> Start | Run | winfile | wallow in nostalgia ... it even still only uses
> 8.3 filenames ... (No, I don't use it!)

IIRC progman.exe is there too, but has a new look.

[FromTheRafters[_2_]]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" > wrote in message
...
> In message >, FromTheRafters
> > writes
>>Have you tried a different keyboard to see if the problem
>>is there too? Such a test might illuminate an investigative
>>path.
>>
>>
> The thing is, it always works the second time; also, I'm not aware of the
> shift keys giving any problem in any other situation - THEY DO CAPITALS NO
> PROBLEM, for example; it's _only_ when deleting files in Windows Explorer,
> and _only_ the first time I try to delete one, that the shift key is
> ignored.

You're probably right, but...

It is a common failure in troubleshooting to assume "it couldn't be
this because...", when it would be so easy to prove it isn't this thing
instead of just guessing.

Electronics can surprise you.

[thanatoid]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" > wrote in
:

<SNIP>

>>Did you try another keyboard?
>
> I can't remember if I have or not, but as it's a laptop,
> that's not really a viable solution, unless I could get a
> replacement for such an old laptop.

Most laptops allow you to plug in an ext. kbd.

<SNIP>

> It's only when deleting files/folders in Windows Explorer.

WHY do you use that medieval torture device? www.ghisler.com.
Try it for free jst to see if it's your kbd or the venerabl;e
Window "file manager".

IIRC (I have set it up a /long/ time ago) Del is "no rec. bin"
and Sh-Del is "rec. bin". Or vice versa. It's in one of the
first options pages anyway, along with other things that will
blow your mind.

<SNIP>

> For some time (some years I think). Not enough of a problem
> to be really irritating.

Well, then, as a former boss of mine used to say (spoken with a
gurgling gorilla-like voice) "Ghais! Ghwat we talkin!?"


--
Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the
votes decide everything.
- Josef Stalin

[Jeff Richards]

As it's not possible to change the keyboard without also significantly
changing the ergonomics involved, this test will not prove that it is
electronics rather than operator. For instance, a good test result with an
add-on keyboard will not remove the possibility that OP is removing his
finger from Shift before pressing Del, or that pressing Shift slightly
off-centre prevents it from registering.

The common error in troubleshooting is actually the failure to properly
analyse the circumstances of the problem.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"FromTheRafters" > wrote in message
...
>
> "J. P. Gilliver (John)" > wrote in message
> ...
>> snip <<
>
> It is a common failure in troubleshooting to assume "it couldn't be
> this because...", when it would be so easy to prove it isn't this thing
> instead of just guessing.
>
> Electronics can surprise you.
>

[FromTheRafters[_2_]]

Yes, that too.

I was more looking for a *bad* test result which almost
eliminates the keyboard as the culprit. Of course a good
result leaves too many possibilities for a conclusion at that
point.

I've seen counterintuitive results from keypads too often to
assume it couldn't be that - signal going through a junction
device and charging a capacitive circuit on the first press
(decoupling) and yet on further presses acts as desired.

It wouldn't hurt that much to plug in a keyboard rather than
just assume it couldn't be that because...

"Jeff Richards" > wrote in message
...
> As it's not possible to change the keyboard without also significantly
> changing the ergonomics involved, this test will not prove that it is
> electronics rather than operator. For instance, a good test result with
> an add-on keyboard will not remove the possibility that OP is removing his
> finger from Shift before pressing Del, or that pressing Shift slightly
> off-centre prevents it from registering.
>
> The common error in troubleshooting is actually the failure to properly
> analyse the circumstances of the problem.
> --
> Jeff Richards
> MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
> "FromTheRafters" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "J. P. Gilliver (John)" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> snip <<
>>
>> It is a common failure in troubleshooting to assume "it couldn't be
>> this because...", when it would be so easy to prove it isn't this thing
>> instead of just guessing.
>>
>> Electronics can surprise you.
>>
>
>

[PCR]

teebo wrote:
|> deleting a file or folder doesnt 'permanently' delete it;; if you
|> want something permanently 'deleted', then you use a 'shredding'
|> utility,,
|
| I always turn off the trashcan, perhaps because a bit of
| "macintoshofobia" or maybe that I think it is a stupid concept.
| The reason I delete files is that I want to free space on the
| harddisk, not move the files.
| But I think Undo still could be usefull... in that "Oops!"
| situation.... Just like I can use Edit-Undo to undo a move or rename
| of files, I would like
| to have that for just deleted files too. without trashcan.
|
| So anyone know of that kind of utility or patch, that can do this?
| That when pressing Delete, the files do gets really deleted, but the
| first letter in the filename that normally gets wasted is temporary
| saved (until I do next undoable thing), so that Undo works automaticly
| if needed. If a file is fragmented I guess the fat-chain for that file
| have to be remembered too but most files are not.

Not exactly... but any of the following can do an undelete. The one I
use is Restoration. However, the longer you use the computer, the less
likely you will get a "really" deleted file back. After delete, the
space occupied by the deleted file can freely be used by the system. As
soon as something enters that space, the file is truly gone. Also, it
will become unrecoverable after running a Defrag, which probably messes
with the "first letter" you spoke of, in addition to moving files around
on the drive.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Kaus/homepage.htm
Recover For All
http://hccweb1.bai.ne.jp/~hcj58401/ Undelete
http://www.briggsoft.com/dsnoop.htm DSnoop Undelete
http://www.pcinspector.de/file_recovery/uk/welcome.htm Undelete
http://www.snapfiles.com/get/restoration.html Restoration
http://aumha.org/downloads/restoration.exe Also Restoration

| btw, anyone know how to patch windows filemanager to accept shift-Del
| as "cut" like in all other programs?

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

[PCR]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
| In message >, FromTheRafters
| > writes
|>Have you tried a different keyboard to see if the problem
|>is there too? Such a test might illuminate an investigative
|>path.
|>
|>
| The thing is, it always works the second time; also, I'm not aware of
| the shift keys giving any problem in any other situation - THEY DO
| CAPITALS NO PROBLEM, for example; it's _only_ when deleting files in
| Windows Explorer, and _only_ the first time I try to delete one, that
| the shift key is ignored.

(1) Does it happen with both shift keys?
(2) Does it work the 2nd time...
(a) no matter how long you've waited since the 1st?
(b) whether or not it's the same file you try to delete?
(c) whether you've gone to another folder & back again?

I don't know-- I've never seen such a thing myself that I recall. Maybe
try my settings...

"START, Settings, Folder Options, General tab, Custom, Settings button"
Active Desktop-- Use Windows classic desktop.
Browse folders-- Open each folder in the same window.
View Web content-- Only for folders where I select "as Web page".
(But never select any!)
Click items as follows-- Single-click to open an item (point to select).
-- Underline icon titles only when I
point at them.

| --
| J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985
| MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf **
| http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on
| PCs. **
|
| It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. -Voltaire
| (1694-1778)

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

[J. P. Gilliver]

PCR wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> In message >, FromTheRafters
>> > writes
>>> Have you tried a different keyboard to see if the problem
>>> is there too? Such a test might illuminate an investigative
>>> path.
>>>
>>>
>> The thing is, it always works the second time; also, I'm not aware of
>> the shift keys giving any problem in any other situation - THEY DO
>> CAPITALS NO PROBLEM, for example; it's _only_ when deleting files in
>> Windows Explorer, and _only_ the first time I try to delete one, that
>> the shift key is ignored.
>
> (1) Does it happen with both shift keys?

I think so, but am not sure.

> (2) Does it work the 2nd time...
> (a) no matter how long you've waited since the 1st?

Well, I don't usually wait that long. (I know, you're thinking capacitive
charge/discharge or something.)

> (b) whether or not it's the same file you try to delete?

I _think_ the same succession would occur - I don't think I've ever
investigated! It needs a good lateral brain to think of trying that: delete
file. Doesn't go as desired. Oh, let's try deleting a _different_ file. I'll
have to remember (not sending from the affected machine at the moment) to
try!

> (c) whether you've gone to another folder & back again?

See (b), but I'm pretty certain that if I go away and come back again, the
likelihood of it not seeing the shift the first (new) time is high.
>
> I don't know-- I've never seen such a thing myself that I recall.
> Maybe try my settings...
>
> "START, Settings, Folder Options, General tab, Custom, Settings
> button" Active Desktop-- Use Windows classic desktop.

Definitely.

> Browse folders-- Open each folder in the same window.
> View Web content-- Only for folders where I select "as Web page".
> (But never select any!)

I use the '95 shell, so no web content or "as web page". (I think.)

> Click items as follows-- Single-click to open an item (point to
> select). -- Underline icon titles only

I have the double-to-open, single-to select (default?)

Thing is, I have the same settings on other machine(s); it's only on the one
(laptop) where the shift-delete is seen as delete the first time, and as I
said the shift keys work for any other purpose (SUCH AS TYPING CAPITALS [or
the bracket for that matter]).
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver | Tel. +44 1634 203298

[PCR]

J. P. Gilliver wrote:
| PCR wrote:
|> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
|>> In message >, FromTheRafters
|>> > writes
|>>> Have you tried a different keyboard to see if the problem
|>>> is there too? Such a test might illuminate an investigative
|>>> path.
|>>>
|>>>
|>> The thing is, it always works the second time; also, I'm not aware
|>> of the shift keys giving any problem in any other situation - THEY
|>> DO CAPITALS NO PROBLEM, for example; it's _only_ when deleting
|>> files in Windows Explorer, and _only_ the first time I try to
|>> delete one, that the shift key is ignored.
|>
|> (1) Does it happen with both shift keys?
|
| I think so, but am not sure.

That's the first thing to know! If it's just the most often used key,
suspect it has become worn &/or developed a sweet spot. But don't
dismiss the possibilty there's gook &/or hair strands under it. (I've
had lots under mine last time I looked!) Are you balding &/or pulling
them out? :-).

|> (2) Does it work the 2nd time...
|> (a) no matter how long you've waited since the 1st?
|
| Well, I don't usually wait that long. (I know, you're thinking
| capacitive charge/discharge or something.)

I can't recall what I was thinking-- it was a month ago! Well-- you get
the wrong requestor the 1st try (the one mentioning Recycle Bin).
Therefore, you try again, maybe pressing shift a bit harder or holding
it a tad longer the 2nd try-- as a reflexive response maybe. But if you
waited longer between attempts, you might revert to a lighter or shorter
press. Maybe that was it.

SO... ensure you press the key as hard & long both times. Does it still
happen? Hold the shift key until the requestor appears.

|> (b) whether or not it's the same file you try to delete?
|
| I _think_ the same succession would occur - I don't think I've ever
| investigated! It needs a good lateral brain to think of trying that:
| delete file. Doesn't go as desired. Oh, let's try deleting a
| _different_ file. I'll have to remember (not sending from the
| affected machine at the moment) to try!

I do have a good lateral brain. But I can't quite recall what I was
trying to discover with that question, either! Uhhhh ... maybe ... those
settings ... you are set "click to select" (instead of "point to
select"). If it's the same file, going by your settings, it will surely
be selected the 2nd time. (But I really don't know that it matters, [&
probably it doesn't]).

|> (c) whether you've gone to another folder & back again?
|
| See (b), but I'm pretty certain that if I go away and come back
| again, the likelihood of it not seeing the shift the first (new) time
| is high.

Switching to another folder & back puts time between attempts. This may
cause you to revert to your normal light/short keypress. Then, you'd get
the wrong requestor twice in a row. If so, that shift key may be worn.
Remember to try the other!

|>
|> I don't know-- I've never seen such a thing myself that I recall.
|> Maybe try my settings...
|>
|> "START, Settings, Folder Options, General tab, Custom, Settings
|> button" Active Desktop-- Use Windows classic desktop.
|
| Definitely.

OK.

|> Browse folders-- Open each folder in the same window.
|> View Web content-- Only for folders where I select "as Web page".
|> (But never select any!)
|
| I use the '95 shell, so no web content or "as web page". (I think.)

Hmmmm-- this could be a job for thanatoid, then. He has that too! It may
be a peculiarity of Win95. (I don't know.)

|> Click items as follows-- Single-click to open an item (point to
|> select). -- Underline icon titles only
|
| I have the double-to-open, single-to select (default?)
|
| Thing is, I have the same settings on other machine(s); it's only on
| the one (laptop) where the shift-delete is seen as delete the first
| time, and as I said the shift keys work for any other purpose (SUCH
| AS TYPING CAPITALS [or the bracket for that matter]).
| []

It could be bad code in Win95 that causes Explorer to sometimes miss the
shift key when pressing delete. Let me see what thanatoid wrote-- well,
he recommends ghisler (instead of Explorer), but never said whether he
ever saw that problem.

| --
| J. P. Gilliver | Tel. +44 1634 203298

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

[thanatoid]

"PCR" > wrote in
:

<SNIP>

> It could be bad code in Win95 that causes Explorer to
> sometimes miss the shift key when pressing delete. Let me
> see what thanatoid wrote-- well, he recommends ghisler
> (instead of Explorer), but never said whether he ever saw
> that problem.

He didn't. He used 95B for almost 10 years before getting a 2nd
computer and putting 98SE Lite on it and he never experienced
this problem, regardless of what file manager he used (he tried
several others before settling on Ghisler's - he used Windows
File Manager but found better alternatives, and he has NEVER
used WE except to turn on file extensions and change the
occasional file assoc. or icon). Ztree is pretty cool as it
basically replicates and expands on THE best file manager ever,
Xtree DOS. (Xtree for Windows sucked, since another company was
making it by that time, IIRC.) But there are at least a dozen -
out of a couple hundred out there, I imagine - file managers
which while not as good as Ghisler's, ARE /file managers/ and
not you-know-what.

thanatoid has managed to tame most of Windows' stupid behavior
by using TweakUI, Axel's (whatever he calls himself now) tips
and tricks (and some others collected over many years),
"iconsaver", "display set", etc., and /never/ using /any/ MS
software except the OS (95B OEM and 98SE Lite {Hi Gary!}). WE,
IE/OE are NOT part of the OS. They are torture devices and/or
backdoor-enabling spyware.

He has NO idea what the problem is here. All he can say is he
wouldn't own a laptop for anything. Even a properly working
laptop "keyboard" would drive him even more insane in no time.


--
"May you live in interesting times."
(curse, origin disputed)

[PCR]

thanatoid wrote:
| "PCR" > wrote in
| :
|
| <SNIP>
|
|> It could be bad code in Win95 that causes Explorer to
|> sometimes miss the shift key when pressing delete. Let me
|> see what thanatoid wrote-- well, he recommends ghisler
|> (instead of Explorer), but never said whether he ever saw
|> that problem.
|
| He didn't. He used 95B for almost 10 years before getting a 2nd
| computer and putting 98SE Lite on it and he never experienced
| this problem, regardless of what file manager he used (he tried
| several others before settling on Ghisler's - he used Windows
| File Manager but found better alternatives, and he has NEVER
| used WE

WE being Windows Explorer? File Manager being what-- WinFile?

But, if you haven't used Shift+DEL (the keys or equivalent Shift+mouse
click in the context menu) in Explorer in Win95B-- your experience is
inadequate to the specific suspicion I had in mind (a peculiarity in the
W95 OS or its Explorer). Good for you in finding alternatives that made
you happy, though. And I'm sure you've studied the do's & don'ts of
TweakUI carefully.

| except to turn on file extensions and change the
| occasional file assoc. or icon). Ztree is pretty cool as it
| basically replicates and expands on THE best file manager ever,
| Xtree DOS. (Xtree for Windows sucked, since another company was
| making it by that time, IIRC.) But there are at least a dozen -
| out of a couple hundred out there, I imagine - file managers
| which while not as good as Ghisler's, ARE /file managers/ and
| not you-know-what.
|
| thanatoid has managed to tame most of Windows' stupid behavior
| by using TweakUI, Axel's (whatever he calls himself now) tips
| and tricks (and some others collected over many years),
| "iconsaver", "display set", etc., and /never/ using /any/ MS
| software except the OS (95B OEM and 98SE Lite {Hi Gary!}). WE,
| IE/OE are NOT part of the OS. They are torture devices and/or
| backdoor-enabling spyware.
|
| He has NO idea what the problem is here. All he can say is he
| wouldn't own a laptop for anything. Even a properly working
| laptop "keyboard" would drive him even more insane in no time.
|
|
| --
| "May you live in interesting times."
| (curse, origin disputed)

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR