Not Spam, but Notice to change links

[MEB[_2_]]

The former site which I included in my signature is defunct and should be
changed to http://peoplescounsel.org

This is provided for any parties whom might have added, included, or
otherwise linked to the former address or its materials.


--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
_ _
~~

[Rick Chauvin]

:) you're typed words always bespeak of lawyer lingo :)

hi,

Rick

"MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message

> The former site which I included in my signature is defunct and should be
> changed to http://peoplescounsel.org
>
> This is provided for any parties whom might have added, included, or
> otherwise linked to the former address or its materials.
>
>
> --
> MEB
> http://peoplescounsel.org
> _ _
> ~~

[MEB[_2_]]

"Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
...
| :) you're typed words always bespeak of lawyer lingo :)
|
| hi,
|
| Rick

After years of writing that way, its a hard habit to break... the whole
thought process changes; logic, direction, and conveyance are key and
essential; step outside that box and the sharks WILL get you.....

So whatsup wit yus...

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~

|
| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
|
| > The former site which I included in my signature is defunct and should
be
| > changed to http://peoplescounsel.org
| >
| > This is provided for any parties whom might have added, included, or
| > otherwise linked to the former address or its materials.
| >
| >
| > --
| > MEB
| > http://peoplescounsel.org
| > _ _
| > ~~
|
|
|
|

[Rick Chauvin]

Understood...

~~~~~~~~~

I be okay, good,

~~~~~~~~~

....the best to you Meb,

Rick




...a great prophet wise man once said to me..
.....what your mindset or focus is always on, is what you will get...




"MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message

> "Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
> ...
>| :) you're typed words always bespeak of lawyer lingo :)
>|
>| hi,
>|
>| Rick
>
> After years of writing that way, its a hard habit to break... the whole
> thought process changes; logic, direction, and conveyance are key and
> essential; step outside that box and the sharks WILL get you.....
>
> So whatsup wit yus...
>
> --
> MEB
> http://peoplescounsel.org
> a Peoples' counsel
> _ _
> ~~
>
>|
>| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
>|
>| > The former site which I included in my signature is defunct and
>| > should be changed to http://peoplescounsel.org
>| >
>| > This is provided for any parties whom might have added, included, or
>| > otherwise linked to the former address or its materials.
>| >
>| >
>| > --
>| > MEB
>| > http://peoplescounsel.org
>| > _ _
>| > ~~

[PCR]

Rick Chauvin wrote:
| Understood...
|
| ~~~~~~~~~
|
| I be okay, good,
|
| ~~~~~~~~~
|
| ...the best to you Meb,

I'm beginning to think you never adjusted for the time zone changes,
Chauvin. Look at MEB's & your timestamps...

..................... Properties ............................... ...
OE ...
MEB: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:42:22 -0400 2:42 PM
You: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:31:34 -0500 8:31 PM
MEB: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:56:01 -0400 12:56 AM
You: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:09:22 -0500 8:09 PM

In MEB's first post, 14:42 shows up in the properties of his post, &
2:42 PM shows up in OE. Those are the same but on a 24 & 12 hour clock.
His second post shows the same times as well. But your property's times
are 1 hour slow (should show 20) or the time showing in OE is one hour
fast (should show 7)!

Do you have TZEdit? If not, take it from here...
http://www.softshape.com/cham/manual/tzedit.htm

TZEdit.exe goes into C\Windows\System. (The .cnt, .hlp, & .gid files go
into C\Windows\Help. However, they don't seem to work, anyhow.)

First, D-Clk your clock, & ensure you are set for the proper time zone.
Next, run TZEdit. If it shows that you have the 2006 implementation,
change it to the 2007 implementation. This will fix the dates for your
own time zone only. (Alternatively, go to Terhune's site & a take a fix
for all time zones.)

.....Quote..........
The 2006 implementation is as follows:
• Daylight saving time starts at 02:00 A.M. on April 2, 2006.
• Daylight saving time ends at 02:00 A.M. on October 29, 2006.

The 2007 implementation is as follows:
• Daylight saving time starts at 02:00 A.M. on March 11, 2007.
• Daylight saving time ends at 02:00 A.M. on November 4, 2007
.....EOQ............

| Rick
|
|
|
|
| ..a great prophet wise man once said to me..
| ....what your mindset or focus is always on, is what you will get...
|
|
|
|
| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
|
|> "Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
|> ...
|>| :) you're typed words always bespeak of lawyer lingo :)
|>|
|>| hi,
|>|
|>| Rick
|>
|> After years of writing that way, its a hard habit to break... the
|> whole thought process changes; logic, direction, and conveyance are
|> key and essential; step outside that box and the sharks WILL get
|> you.....
|>
|> So whatsup wit yus...
|>
|> --
|> MEB
|> http://peoplescounsel.org
|> a Peoples' counsel
|> _ _
|> ~~
|>
|>|
|>| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
|>|
|>| > The former site which I included in my signature is defunct and
|>| > should be changed to http://peoplescounsel.org
|>| >
|>| > This is provided for any parties whom might have added, included,
|>| > or otherwise linked to the former address or its materials.
|>| >
|>| >
|>| > --
|>| > MEB
|>| > http://peoplescounsel.org
|>| > _ _
|>| > ~~

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

[PCR]

PCR wrote:
| Rick Chauvin wrote:
|| Understood...
||
|| ~~~~~~~~~
||
|| I be okay, good,
||
|| ~~~~~~~~~
||
|| ...the best to you Meb,
|
| I'm beginning to think you never adjusted for the time zone changes,
| Chauvin. Look at MEB's & your timestamps...
|
| .................... Properties ...............................
| ... OE ...
| MEB: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:42:22 -0400 2:42 PM
| You: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:31:34 -0500 8:31 PM
| MEB: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:56:01 -0400 12:56 AM
| You: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:09:22 -0500 8:09 PM
|
| In MEB's first post, 14:42 shows up in the properties of his post, &
| 2:42 PM shows up in OE. Those are the same but on a 24 & 12 hour
| clock. His second post shows the same times as well. But your
| property's times are 1 hour slow (should show 20) or the time showing
| in OE is one hour fast (should show 7)!
|
| Do you have TZEdit? If not, take it from here...
| http://www.softshape.com/cham/manual/tzedit.htm
|
| TZEdit.exe goes into C\Windows\System. (The .cnt, .hlp, & .gid files
| go into C\Windows\Help. However, they don't seem to work, anyhow.)
|
| First, D-Clk your clock, & ensure you are set for the proper time
| zone. Next, run TZEdit. If it shows that you have the 2006
| implementation, change it to the 2007 implementation. This will fix
| the dates for your own time zone only. (Alternatively, go to
| Terhune's site & a take a fix for all time zones.)
|
| ....Quote..........
| The 2006 implementation is as follows:
| • Daylight saving time starts at 02:00 A.M. on April 2, 2006.
| • Daylight saving time ends at 02:00 A.M. on October 29, 2006.
|
| The 2007 implementation is as follows:
| • Daylight saving time starts at 02:00 A.M. on March 11, 2007.
| • Daylight saving time ends at 02:00 A.M. on November 4, 2007
| ....EOQ............

Wait a minute-- forget it! MEB & I must be in the same time zone. That
is I why I see his & my header & OE sent dates to match. Windows applies
the differencial to the header before displaying it! Sheesh! Sorry! You
must be an hour away from us! Good to see you back, Chauvin.

|| Rick
||
||
||
||
|| ..a great prophet wise man once said to me..
|| ....what your mindset or focus is always on, is what you will get...
||
||
||
||
|| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
||
||> "Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
||> ...
||>| :) you're typed words always bespeak of lawyer lingo :)
||>|
||>| hi,
||>|
||>| Rick
||>
||> After years of writing that way, its a hard habit to break... the
||> whole thought process changes; logic, direction, and conveyance are
||> key and essential; step outside that box and the sharks WILL get
||> you.....
||>
||> So whatsup wit yus...
||>
||> --
||> MEB
||> http://peoplescounsel.org
||> a Peoples' counsel
||> _ _
||> ~~
||>
||>|
||>| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
||>|
||>| > The former site which I included in my signature is defunct and
||>| > should be changed to http://peoplescounsel.org
||>| >
||>| > This is provided for any parties whom might have added, included,
||>| > or otherwise linked to the former address or its materials.
||>| >
||>| >
||>| > --
||>| > MEB
||>| > http://peoplescounsel.org
||>| > _ _
||>| > ~~
|
| --
| Thanks or Good Luck,
| There may be humor in this post, and,
| Naturally, you will not sue,
| Should things get worse after this,
| PCR
|

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

[MEB[_2_]]

Ah yeah, might be - - EDT v CDT v {the numerous time zones}

Let's not forget that a message may be created well before it is sent, and
may be delayed or modified by the service provider.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~
"PCR" > wrote in message
...
| PCR wrote:
| | Rick Chauvin wrote:
| || Understood...
| ||
| || ~~~~~~~~~
| ||
| || I be okay, good,
| ||
| || ~~~~~~~~~
| ||
| || ...the best to you Meb,
| |
| | I'm beginning to think you never adjusted for the time zone changes,
| | Chauvin. Look at MEB's & your timestamps...
| |
| | .................... Properties ...............................
| | ... OE ...
| | MEB: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:42:22 -0400 2:42 PM
| | You: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:31:34 -0500 8:31 PM
| | MEB: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:56:01 -0400 12:56 AM
| | You: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:09:22 -0500 8:09 PM
| |
| | In MEB's first post, 14:42 shows up in the properties of his post, &
| | 2:42 PM shows up in OE. Those are the same but on a 24 & 12 hour
| | clock. His second post shows the same times as well. But your
| | property's times are 1 hour slow (should show 20) or the time showing
| | in OE is one hour fast (should show 7)!
| |
| | Do you have TZEdit? If not, take it from here...
| | http://www.softshape.com/cham/manual/tzedit.htm
| |
| | TZEdit.exe goes into C\Windows\System. (The .cnt, .hlp, & .gid files
| | go into C\Windows\Help. However, they don't seem to work, anyhow.)
| |
| | First, D-Clk your clock, & ensure you are set for the proper time
| | zone. Next, run TZEdit. If it shows that you have the 2006
| | implementation, change it to the 2007 implementation. This will fix
| | the dates for your own time zone only. (Alternatively, go to
| | Terhune's site & a take a fix for all time zones.)
| |
| | ....Quote..........
| | The 2006 implementation is as follows:
| | . Daylight saving time starts at 02:00 A.M. on April 2, 2006.
| | . Daylight saving time ends at 02:00 A.M. on October 29, 2006.
| |
| | The 2007 implementation is as follows:
| | . Daylight saving time starts at 02:00 A.M. on March 11, 2007.
| | . Daylight saving time ends at 02:00 A.M. on November 4, 2007
| | ....EOQ............
|
| Wait a minute-- forget it! MEB & I must be in the same time zone. That
| is I why I see his & my header & OE sent dates to match. Windows applies
| the differencial to the header before displaying it! Sheesh! Sorry! You
| must be an hour away from us! Good to see you back, Chauvin.
|
| || Rick
| ||
| ||
| ||
| ||
| || ..a great prophet wise man once said to me..
| || ....what your mindset or focus is always on, is what you will get...
| ||
| ||
| ||
| ||
| || "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
| ||
| ||> "Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
| ||> ...
| ||>| :) you're typed words always bespeak of lawyer lingo :)
| ||>|
| ||>| hi,
| ||>|
| ||>| Rick
| ||>
| ||> After years of writing that way, its a hard habit to break... the
| ||> whole thought process changes; logic, direction, and conveyance are
| ||> key and essential; step outside that box and the sharks WILL get
| ||> you.....
| ||>
| ||> So whatsup wit yus...
| ||>
| ||> --
| ||> MEB
| ||> http://peoplescounsel.org
| ||> a Peoples' counsel
| ||> _ _
| ||> ~~
| ||>
| ||>|
| ||>| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
| ||>|
| ||>| > The former site which I included in my signature is defunct and
| ||>| > should be changed to http://peoplescounsel.org
| ||>| >
| ||>| > This is provided for any parties whom might have added, included,
| ||>| > or otherwise linked to the former address or its materials.
| ||>| >
| ||>| >
| ||>| > --
| ||>| > MEB
| ||>| > http://peoplescounsel.org
| ||>| > _ _
| ||>| > ~~
| |
| | --
| | Thanks or Good Luck,
| | There may be humor in this post, and,
| | Naturally, you will not sue,
| | Should things get worse after this,
| | PCR
| |
|
| --
| Thanks or Good Luck,
| There may be humor in this post, and,
| Naturally, you will not sue,
| Should things get worse after this,
| PCR
|
|
|

[Rick Chauvin]

"MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message

> Ah yeah, might be - - EDT v CDT v {the numerous time zones}
>
> Let's not forget that a message may be created well before it is sent,
> and may be delayed or modified by the service provider.

I write and sent mine out on the spot though.
Yes I am in the EDT zone
I don't know why pcr sees my posts time stamp like he does.
It all looks okay on my end.

Rick

>
> --
> MEB
|

[Rick Chauvin]

"PCR" > wrote in message


> Wait a minute-- forget it! MEB & I must be in the same time zone. That
> is I why I see his & my header & OE sent dates to match. Windows applies
> the differencial to the header before displaying it! Sheesh! Sorry! You
> must be an hour away from us! Good to see you back, Chauvin.

I have never gone anywhere, My schedule makes it so I just don't have the
extra time to post as much though.

I don't know why you see the time stamps the way you do, but mine always
shows good.

Rick


> --
> Thanks or Good Luck,
> There may be humor in this post, and,
> Naturally, you will not sue,
> Should things get worse after this,
> PCR
>

[PCR]

Rick Chauvin wrote:
| "PCR" > wrote in message
|
|
|> Wait a minute-- forget it! MEB & I must be in the same time zone.
|> That is I why I see his & my header & OE sent dates to match.
|> Windows applies the differencial to the header before displaying it!
|> Sheesh! Sorry! You must be an hour away from us! Good to see you
|> back, Chauvin.
|
| I have never gone anywhere, My schedule makes it so I just don't have
| the extra time to post as much though.
|
| I don't know why you see the time stamps the way you do, but mine
| always shows good.

Now, I'm puzzled again-- IF you are Eastern Time (US & Canada), as you
posted to MEB.

Your header: 14:46 (2:46 PM)
My OE display: 3:46 PM

If you were in the same time zone as me, I would see those times to be
the same. But, because you are in a zone that is one hour earlier than
mine, I see the earlier time in your header. OE/Windows then makes it
right in the OE sent time display. That's what I recently realized (I
think!).

Did you run that TZEdit like I requested earlier? What did you see?

Do you have TZEdit? If not, take it from here...
http://www.softshape.com/cham/manual/tzedit.htm

TZEdit.exe goes into C\Windows\System. (The .cnt, .hlp, & .gid files go
into C\Windows\Help. However, they don't seem to work, anyhow.)

First, D-Clk your clock, & ensure you are set for the proper time zone.
Next, run TZEdit. If it shows that you have the 2006 implementation,
change it to the 2007 implementation. This will fix the dates for your
own time zone only. (Alternatively, go to Terhune's site & a take a fix
for all time zones.)

.....Quote..........
The 2006 implementation is as follows:
• Daylight saving time starts at 02:00 A.M. on April 2, 2006.
• Daylight saving time ends at 02:00 A.M. on October 29, 2006.

The 2007 implementation is as follows:
• Daylight saving time starts at 02:00 A.M. on March 11, 2007.
• Daylight saving time ends at 02:00 A.M. on November 4, 2007
.....EOQ............


| Rick
|
|
|> --
|> Thanks or Good Luck,
|> There may be humor in this post, and,
|> Naturally, you will not sue,
|> Should things get worse after this,
|> PCR
|>

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

[PCR]

MEB wrote:
| Ah yeah, might be - - EDT v CDT v {the numerous time zones}

I still think so-- but Chauvin has confused me again by saying he is
EDT, which I take to mean Eastern Daylight Savings Time. I want to see
his TZEdit display to see whether the zone changes took!

| Let's not forget that a message may be created well before it is
| sent, and may be delayed or modified by the service provider.

I thought of that. But, I think (not perfectly sure) the time in the
header is the one used for OE's sent time no matter when it actually is
sent. If written offline yesterday & held in the Outbox, it will show up
on the server (& in OE's sent column) with yesterday's date. Probably,
that would be different if held in Drafts instead until sent. Anyhow,
Chauvin has confirmed he posts them immediately.

| --
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.org
| a Peoples' counsel
| _ _
| ~~
| "PCR" > wrote in message
| ...
|| PCR wrote:
|| | Rick Chauvin wrote:
|| || Understood...
|| ||
|| || ~~~~~~~~~
|| ||
|| || I be okay, good,
|| ||
|| || ~~~~~~~~~
|| ||
|| || ...the best to you Meb,
|| |
|| | I'm beginning to think you never adjusted for the time zone
|| | changes, Chauvin. Look at MEB's & your timestamps...
|| |
|| | .................... Properties ...............................
|| | ... OE ...
|| | MEB: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:42:22 -0400 2:42 PM
|| | You: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:31:34 -0500 8:31 PM
|| | MEB: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:56:01 -0400 12:56 AM
|| | You: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:09:22 -0500 8:09 PM
|| |
|| | In MEB's first post, 14:42 shows up in the properties of his post,
|| | & 2:42 PM shows up in OE. Those are the same but on a 24 & 12 hour
|| | clock. His second post shows the same times as well. But your
|| | property's times are 1 hour slow (should show 20) or the time
|| | showing in OE is one hour fast (should show 7)!
|| |
|| | Do you have TZEdit? If not, take it from here...
|| | http://www.softshape.com/cham/manual/tzedit.htm
|| |
|| | TZEdit.exe goes into C\Windows\System. (The .cnt, .hlp, & .gid
|| | files go into C\Windows\Help. However, they don't seem to work,
|| | anyhow.)
|| |
|| | First, D-Clk your clock, & ensure you are set for the proper time
|| | zone. Next, run TZEdit. If it shows that you have the 2006
|| | implementation, change it to the 2007 implementation. This will fix
|| | the dates for your own time zone only. (Alternatively, go to
|| | Terhune's site & a take a fix for all time zones.)
|| |
|| | ....Quote..........
|| | The 2006 implementation is as follows:
|| | . Daylight saving time starts at 02:00 A.M. on April 2, 2006.
|| | . Daylight saving time ends at 02:00 A.M. on October 29, 2006.
|| |
|| | The 2007 implementation is as follows:
|| | . Daylight saving time starts at 02:00 A.M. on March 11, 2007.
|| | . Daylight saving time ends at 02:00 A.M. on November 4, 2007
|| | ....EOQ............
||
|| Wait a minute-- forget it! MEB & I must be in the same time zone.
|| That is I why I see his & my header & OE sent dates to match.
|| Windows applies the differencial to the header before displaying it!
|| Sheesh! Sorry! You must be an hour away from us! Good to see you
|| back, Chauvin.
||
|| || Rick
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| || ..a great prophet wise man once said to me..
|| || ....what your mindset or focus is always on, is what you will
|| || get...
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| || "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
|| ||
|| ||> "Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
|| ||> ...
|| ||>| :) you're typed words always bespeak of lawyer lingo :)
|| ||>|
|| ||>| hi,
|| ||>|
|| ||>| Rick
|| ||>
|| ||> After years of writing that way, its a hard habit to break... the
|| ||> whole thought process changes; logic, direction, and conveyance
|| ||> are key and essential; step outside that box and the sharks WILL
|| ||> get you.....
|| ||>
|| ||> So whatsup wit yus...
|| ||>
|| ||> --
|| ||> MEB
|| ||> http://peoplescounsel.org
|| ||> a Peoples' counsel
|| ||> _ _
|| ||> ~~
|| ||>
|| ||>|
|| ||>| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
|| ||>|
|| ||>| > The former site which I included in my signature is defunct
|| ||>| > and should be changed to http://peoplescounsel.org
|| ||>| >
|| ||>| > This is provided for any parties whom might have added,
|| ||>| > included, or otherwise linked to the former address or its
|| ||>| > materials.
|| ||>| >
|| ||>| >
|| ||>| > --
|| ||>| > MEB
|| ||>| > http://peoplescounsel.org
|| ||>| > _ _
|| ||>| > ~~
|| |
|| | --
|| | Thanks or Good Luck,
|| | There may be humor in this post, and,
|| | Naturally, you will not sue,
|| | Should things get worse after this,
|| | PCR
|| |
||
|| --
|| Thanks or Good Luck,
|| There may be humor in this post, and,
|| Naturally, you will not sue,
|| Should things get worse after this,
|| PCR
||

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

[Bill Blanton]

"Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> "PCR" > wrote in message
>
>
>> Wait a minute-- forget it! MEB & I must be in the same time zone. That
>> is I why I see his & my header & OE sent dates to match. Windows applies
>> the differencial to the header before displaying it! Sheesh! Sorry! You
>> must be an hour away from us! Good to see you back, Chauvin.

> I don't know why you see the time stamps the way you do, but mine always
> shows good.


Rick, I don't think your system is on daylight savings time? EST should be
GMT-400 during DST, and -500 when not.

You see it correctly because you're posting at -500 and downloading at -500,
while PCR and I are downloading your posts at -400.

[MEB[_2_]]

"Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
...
| "Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
...
| >
| >
| > "PCR" > wrote in message
| >
| >
| >> Wait a minute-- forget it! MEB & I must be in the same time zone. That
| >> is I why I see his & my header & OE sent dates to match. Windows
applies
| >> the differencial to the header before displaying it! Sheesh! Sorry! You
| >> must be an hour away from us! Good to see you back, Chauvin.
|
| > I don't know why you see the time stamps the way you do, but mine always
| > shows good.
|
|
| Rick, I don't think your system is on daylight savings time? EST should be
| GMT-400 during DST, and -500 when not.
|
| You see it correctly because you're posting at -500 and downloading
at -500,
| while PCR and I are downloading your posts at -400.
|

Hmm, yeah, Rich's posts show:
Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:42:30 -0500
Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:46:15 -0500

AHHH, the difference IS the modification when in DST [daylight savings time]
modified time zones.
-0500 GMT becomes -0400 GMT when adjusted.

All these time discussions have failed to address the HOW of software DST
adjustment when it has been made.

Using PCR's post which noted the issue:

I'm beginning to think you never adjusted for the time zone changes,
Chauvin. Look at MEB's & your timestamps...

..................... Properties ............................... ...
OE ...
MEB: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:42:22 -0400 2:42 PM
You: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:31:34 -0500 8:31 PM
MEB: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:56:01 -0400 12:56 AM
You: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:09:22 -0500 8:09 PM


When he posted the above, it showed this for his DST adjusted message:
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:02:59 -0400

However, as Bill noted, we are all in EDT -0500, but when properly applied,
software/registry DST change sets the -0500 to -0400 GMT when the patches
have been applied which impliment the congressional changes.... which is a
simple but rather sloppy way to change the time as that places those it
affects in the wrong geographic regions. So it does appear Rick has failed
to apply those changes.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~
"Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
...
|
|
| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
|
| > Ah yeah, might be - - EDT v CDT v {the numerous time zones}
| >
| > Let's not forget that a message may be created well before it is sent,
| > and may be delayed or modified by the service provider.
|
| I write and sent mine out on the spot though.
| Yes I am in the EDT zone
| I don't know why pcr sees my posts time stamp like he does.
| It all looks okay on my end.
|
| Rick
|
| >
| > --
| > MEB
| |
|
|
|

[PCR]

MEB wrote:
| "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
| ...
|| "Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
| ...
|| >
|| >
|| > "PCR" > wrote in message
|| >
|| >
|| >> Wait a minute-- forget it! MEB & I must be in the same time zone.
|| >> That is I why I see his & my header & OE sent dates to match.
|| >> Windows applies the differencial to the header before displaying
|| >> it! Sheesh! Sorry! You must be an hour away from us! Good to see
|| >> you back, Chauvin.
||
|| > I don't know why you see the time stamps the way you do, but mine
|| > always shows good.
||
||
|| Rick, I don't think your system is on daylight savings time? EST
|| should be GMT-400 during DST, and -500 when not.
||
|| You see it correctly because you're posting at -500 and downloading
| at -500,
|| while PCR and I are downloading your posts at -400.

Ah! Thanks for confirming that bit, Blanton! It was the last doubt I had
about who's time was wacky-- mine & MEB's or Chauvin's! I did guess a
while ago on my own that -500 legitimately becomes -400 during the
"savings" period-- but I wasn't absolutely sure! Good to see you popping
in again!

||
|
| Hmm, yeah, Rich's posts show:
|
| Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:42:30 -0500
| Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:46:15 -0500
|
| AHHH, the difference IS the modification when in DST [daylight
| savings time] modified time zones.
| -0500 GMT becomes -0400 GMT when adjusted.

Yep-- you, me, & Blanton all match for that! (I was hoping that was
true!)

| All these time discussions have failed to address the HOW of
| software DST adjustment when it has been made.
|
| Using PCR's post which noted the issue:
|
| I'm beginning to think you never adjusted for the time zone changes,
| Chauvin. Look at MEB's & your timestamps...
|
| .................... Properties ...............................
| ...
| OE ...
| MEB: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:42:22 -0400 2:42 PM
| You: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:31:34 -0500 8:31 PM
| MEB: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:56:01 -0400 12:56 AM
| You: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:09:22 -0500 8:09 PM
|
|
| When he posted the above, it showed this for his DST adjusted
| message: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:02:59 -0400
|
| However, as Bill noted, we are all in EDT -0500, but when properly
| applied, software/registry DST change sets the -0500 to -0400 GMT
| when the patches have been applied which impliment the congressional
| changes.... which is a simple but rather sloppy way to change the
| time as that places those it affects in the wrong geographic regions.

Yep, sloppy: It STILL shows up as -500 in the time zone dropdown
selector of the Time requestor! That's why I had doubts!

| So it does appear Rick has failed to apply those changes.

I'm still waiting to see what TZEdit reports for him.

|
| --
| MEB
| http://peoplescounsel.org
| a Peoples' counsel
| _ _
| ~~
| "Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
| ...
||
||
|| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
||
|| > Ah yeah, might be - - EDT v CDT v {the numerous time zones}
|| >
|| > Let's not forget that a message may be created well before it is
|| > sent, and may be delayed or modified by the service provider.
||
|| I write and sent mine out on the spot though.
|| Yes I am in the EDT zone
|| I don't know why pcr sees my posts time stamp like he does.
|| It all looks okay on my end.
||
|| Rick
||
|| >
|| > --
|| > MEB

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

[Bill Blanton]

"MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message ...
> "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
> ...
> | "Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
> ...
> | > "PCR" > wrote in message
> | >
> | >
> | >> Wait a minute-- forget it! MEB & I must be in the same time zone. That
> | >> is I why I see his & my header & OE sent dates to match. Windows
> applies
> | >> the differencial to the header before displaying it! Sheesh! Sorry! You
> | >> must be an hour away from us! Good to see you back, Chauvin.
> |
> | > I don't know why you see the time stamps the way you do, but mine always
> | > shows good.
> |
> |
> | Rick, I don't think your system is on daylight savings time? EST should be
> | GMT-400 during DST, and -500 when not.
> |
> | You see it correctly because you're posting at -500 and downloading
> at -500,
> | while PCR and I are downloading your posts at -400.
> |
>
> Hmm, yeah, Rich's posts show:
> Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:42:30 -0500
> Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:46:15 -0500
>
> AHHH, the difference IS the modification when in DST [daylight savings time]
> modified time zones.
> -0500 GMT becomes -0400 GMT when adjusted.
>
> All these time discussions have failed to address the HOW of software DST
> adjustment when it has been made.
>
> Using PCR's post which noted the issue:
>
> I'm beginning to think you never adjusted for the time zone changes,
> Chauvin. Look at MEB's & your timestamps...
>
> .................... Properties ............................... ...
> OE ...
> MEB: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:42:22 -0400 2:42 PM
> You: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:31:34 -0500 8:31 PM
> MEB: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:56:01 -0400 12:56 AM
> You: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:09:22 -0500 8:09 PM
>
>
> When he posted the above, it showed this for his DST adjusted message:
> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:02:59 -0400
>
> However, as Bill noted, we are all in EDT -0500, but when properly applied,
> software/registry DST change sets the -0500 to -0400 GMT when the patches
> have been applied which impliment the congressional changes....

IIRC, that patch just changed the day that DST starts and ends. Either way,
patched or unpatched, the DST ending day would not have arrived yet.


> which is a
> simple but rather sloppy way to change the time as that places those it
> affects in the wrong geographic regions.

GMT is a constant. If you "spring" forward an hour it's necessary to "adjust" to
reflect the new relationship to the constant. It's important that networked
systems to use the same time constant. The "time of day" is only for human
consumption ;-)



> So it does appear Rick has failed to apply those changes.

It could be that he turned off the "auto adjust" and set his clock back
manually. The clocks right, but offset is off.

[MEB[_2_]]

"Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
...
|
| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
...
| > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
| > ...
| > | "Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
| > ...
| > | > "PCR" > wrote in message
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >> Wait a minute-- forget it! MEB & I must be in the same time zone.
That
| > | >> is I why I see his & my header & OE sent dates to match. Windows
| > applies
| > | >> the differencial to the header before displaying it! Sheesh! Sorry!
You
| > | >> must be an hour away from us! Good to see you back, Chauvin.
| > |
| > | > I don't know why you see the time stamps the way you do, but mine
always
| > | > shows good.
| > |
| > |
| > | Rick, I don't think your system is on daylight savings time? EST
should be
| > | GMT-400 during DST, and -500 when not.
| > |
| > | You see it correctly because you're posting at -500 and downloading
| > at -500,
| > | while PCR and I are downloading your posts at -400.
| > |
| >
| > Hmm, yeah, Rich's posts show:
| > Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:42:30 -0500
| > Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:46:15 -0500
| >
| > AHHH, the difference IS the modification when in DST [daylight savings
time]
| > modified time zones.
| > -0500 GMT becomes -0400 GMT when adjusted.
| >
| > All these time discussions have failed to address the HOW of software
DST
| > adjustment when it has been made.
| >
| > Using PCR's post which noted the issue:
| >
| > I'm beginning to think you never adjusted for the time zone changes,
| > Chauvin. Look at MEB's & your timestamps...
| >
| > .................... Properties ............................... ...
| > OE ...
| > MEB: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:42:22 -0400 2:42 PM
| > You: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:31:34 -0500 8:31 PM
| > MEB: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:56:01 -0400 12:56 AM
| > You: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:09:22 -0500 8:09 PM
| >
| >
| > When he posted the above, it showed this for his DST adjusted message:
| > Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:02:59 -0400
| >
| > However, as Bill noted, we are all in EDT -0500, but when properly
applied,
| > software/registry DST change sets the -0500 to -0400 GMT when the
patches
| > have been applied which impliment the congressional changes....
|
| IIRC, that patch just changed the day that DST starts and ends. Either
way,
| patched or unpatched, the DST ending day would not have arrived yet.
|
|
| > which is a
| > simple but rather sloppy way to change the time as that places those it
| > affects in the wrong geographic regions.
|
| GMT is a constant. If you "spring" forward an hour it's necessary to
"adjust" to
| reflect the new relationship to the constant. It's important that
networked
| systems to use the same time constant. The "time of day" is only for human
| consumption ;-)

And that constant is/was GMT. However, GMT also provides area location
{longitude}, adjusting zone rather than clock is not exactly accurate.
Example - if I adjust where I'm sitting to -0400 longitude[timezonewise],
I'm sitting at the bottom of the ocean latitude-wise [somewhere off the
shore - adjusting my physical location, latitude and longitude, virtually].
Granted: *time zones* are not the same as longitude lines, having been set
by legislative activities, however, the absolute of GMT [Greenwich Mean
Time] and its relationship to the world then becomes just another
manipulative exponent, hardly what can be considered as constant if its
relationship is and can be varied *virtually*, I think a navigator using a
sextant might agree..

|
|
|
| > So it does appear Rick has failed to apply those changes.
|
| It could be that he turned off the "auto adjust" and set his clock back
| manually. The clocks right, but offset is off.
|
|
|
|

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~

[Bill Blanton]

"MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message ...
> "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
> ...

> | > which is a
> | > simple but rather sloppy way to change the time as that places those it
> | > affects in the wrong geographic regions.
> |
> | GMT is a constant. If you "spring" forward an hour it's necessary to
> "adjust" to
> | reflect the new relationship to the constant. It's important that
> networked
> | systems to use the same time constant. The "time of day" is only for human
> | consumption ;-)
>
> And that constant is/was GMT. However, GMT also provides area location
> {longitude}, adjusting zone rather than clock is not exactly accurate.
> Example - if I adjust where I'm sitting to -0400 longitude[timezonewise],
> I'm sitting at the bottom of the ocean latitude-wise [somewhere off the
> shore - adjusting my physical location, latitude and longitude, virtually].
> Granted: *time zones* are not the same as longitude lines, having been set
> by legislative activities, however, the absolute of GMT [Greenwich Mean
> Time] and its relationship to the world then becomes just another
> manipulative exponent, hardly what can be considered as constant if its
> relationship is and can be varied *virtually*, I think a navigator using a
> sextant might agree..
>

GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of the equation.

If you are calculating your geographic location, you need to adjust
accordingly.

[MEB[_2_]]

"Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
...
| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
...
| > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
| > ...
|
| > | > which is a
| > | > simple but rather sloppy way to change the time as that places those
it
| > | > affects in the wrong geographic regions.
| > |
| > | GMT is a constant. If you "spring" forward an hour it's necessary to
| > "adjust" to
| > | reflect the new relationship to the constant. It's important that
| > networked
| > | systems to use the same time constant. The "time of day" is only for
human
| > | consumption ;-)
| >
| > And that constant is/was GMT. However, GMT also provides area location
| > {longitude}, adjusting zone rather than clock is not exactly accurate.
| > Example - if I adjust where I'm sitting to -0400
longitude[timezonewise],
| > I'm sitting at the bottom of the ocean latitude-wise [somewhere off the
| > shore - adjusting my physical location, latitude and longitude,
virtually].
| > Granted: *time zones* are not the same as longitude lines, having been
set
| > by legislative activities, however, the absolute of GMT [Greenwich Mean
| > Time] and its relationship to the world then becomes just another
| > manipulative exponent, hardly what can be considered as constant if its
| > relationship is and can be varied *virtually*, I think a navigator using
a
| > sextant might agree..
| >
|
| GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
| The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of the equation.
|
| If you are calculating your geographic location, you need to adjust
| accordingly.

Then what you suggest is that mariners and aviators adjust their
chronometer to DST [should that be required] adding that calculation to the
equation to determine position?

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~

[Rick Chauvin]

"Bill Blanton" > wrote in message


[...]

> Rick, I don't think your system is on daylight savings time? EST should
> be GMT-400 during DST, and -500 when not.
>
> You see it correctly because you're posting at -500 and downloading at
> -500, while PCR and I are downloading your posts at -400.

[...]

> GMT is a constant. If you "spring" forward an hour it's necessary to
> "adjust" to reflect the new relationship to the constant. It's important
> that networked systems to use the same time constant. The "time of day"
> is only for human consumption ;-)

[...]

>> So it does appear Rick has failed to apply those changes.

> It could be that he turned off the "auto adjust" and set his clock back
> manually. The clocks right, but offset is off.

[...]

Hi Bill,

You are quite right on all counts Bill.
I am in EST but as you said my computer is set GMT-0500 and yes I do have
Auto Adjust turned off and always have set it manually the first of the
year. I've done that since Win9x because back then it drove me crazy when
auto adjust was on it would scramble my Desktop icons when it auto
adjusted, and so out of habit right along had set my W2K/WXP that way too,
and have been staying booted and posting with XP this year anyway. I
assume XP/2K never scrambles desktop icons after an time auto adjust?

I haven't applied any updates since SP3 on this WXPro, and so am a few
months behind with that, and of course have that auto update off too.

I apologize to you three for not responding to these post earlier but I've
been swamped at work and home and have barley had time to sleep even.
Thanks for the replies PCR & MEB.

Bill, you're on XP too, so how should I set it so that my offset gets shown
correctly on all counts, not just these newsgroups. My sister in Florida
told me last week that my email timestamp was an hour off as well too even
though I see it as normal, and so I need to conform to make things show
right then.

I just now check marked the box to Auto Adjust, and my time jumped
ahead an hour which is incorrect, so I manually adjusted the clock back an
hour but leaving the box checkmarked; I hope this solves the problem.

Thanks,

Rick

[PCR]

Rick Chauvin wrote:
| "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
|
|
| [...]
|
|> Rick, I don't think your system is on daylight savings time? EST
|> should be GMT-400 during DST, and -500 when not.
|>
|> You see it correctly because you're posting at -500 and downloading
|> at -500, while PCR and I are downloading your posts at -400.
|
| [...]
|
|> GMT is a constant. If you "spring" forward an hour it's necessary to
|> "adjust" to reflect the new relationship to the constant. It's
|> important that networked systems to use the same time constant. The
|> "time of day" is only for human consumption ;-)
|
| [...]
|
|>> So it does appear Rick has failed to apply those changes.
|
|> It could be that he turned off the "auto adjust" and set his clock
|> back manually. The clocks right, but offset is off.
|
| [...]
|
| Hi Bill,
|
| You are quite right on all counts Bill.
| I am in EST but as you said my computer is set GMT-0500 and yes I do
| have Auto Adjust turned off and always have set it manually the first
| of the year. I've done that since Win9x because back then it drove me
| crazy when auto adjust was on it would scramble my Desktop icons when
| it auto adjusted, and so out of habit right along had set my W2K/WXP
| that way too, and have been staying booted and posting with XP this
| year anyway. I assume XP/2K never scrambles desktop icons after an
| time auto adjust?
|
| I haven't applied any updates since SP3 on this WXPro, and so am a few
| months behind with that, and of course have that auto update off too.
|
| I apologize to you three for not responding to these post earlier but
| I've been swamped at work and home and have barley had time to sleep
| even. Thanks for the replies PCR & MEB.
|
| Bill, you're on XP too, so how should I set it so that my offset gets
| shown correctly on all counts, not just these newsgroups. My sister
| in Florida told me last week that my email timestamp was an hour off
| as well too even though I see it as normal, and so I need to conform
| to make things show right then.
|
| I just now check marked the box to Auto Adjust, and my time jumped
| ahead an hour which is incorrect, so I manually adjusted the clock
| back an hour but leaving the box checkmarked; I hope this solves the
| problem.

You are welcome. Looks to me that did it...!...

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:32:44 -0400 9/26/08 6:32 PM

Now I see your OE header date & my OE "sent" column date of your post
match. That is as it should be, because we are in the same time zone. It
didn't occur to me you had the auto time adjustment turned off & did it
manually. Good thinking on Blanton's part as usual. OK, I'm taking you
off my naughty list, Chauvin-- for posting responses before the OP has
posted as you did in an earlier thread!

I've never noticed my own Desktop got mussed over that the auto date
change. Next time I'll have to go look! But you always could just have
used something like WinTidy to fix that.

| Thanks,
|
| Rick

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

[Bill Blanton]

"Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
>
>
> [...]
>
>> Rick, I don't think your system is on daylight savings time? EST should
>> be GMT-400 during DST, and -500 when not.


>> It could be that he turned off the "auto adjust" and set his clock back
>> manually. The clocks right, but offset is off.
>
> [...]
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> You are quite right on all counts Bill.
> I am in EST but as you said my computer is set GMT-0500 and yes I do have
> Auto Adjust turned off and always have set it manually the first of the
> year. I've done that since Win9x because back then it drove me crazy when
> auto adjust was on it would scramble my Desktop icons when it auto
> adjusted, and so out of habit right along had set my W2K/WXP that way too,
> and have been staying booted and posting with XP this year anyway. I
> assume XP/2K never scrambles desktop icons after an time auto adjust?

I've never seen XP scramble (or unscramble) desktop icons for that reason,
though I have a vague recollection of what you mention on some 9x systems.

On a side note; if you have any volumes formatted as NTFS, the displayed
file timestamps will be adjusted when the time offset changes. NTFS stores
timestamps at UTC, and computes in the offset for the display.


> I just now check marked the box to Auto Adjust, and my time jumped
> ahead an hour which is incorrect, so I manually adjusted the clock back an
> hour but leaving the box checkmarked; I hope this solves the problem.

I can't vouch for the clock ;-) , but the offset now looks good..

[Bill Blanton]

"MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message ...
>
> "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
> ...
> | "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
> ...
> | > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
> | > ...
> |
> | > | > which is a
> | > | > simple but rather sloppy way to change the time as that places those
> it
> | > | > affects in the wrong geographic regions.
> | > |
> | > | GMT is a constant. If you "spring" forward an hour it's necessary to
> | > "adjust" to
> | > | reflect the new relationship to the constant. It's important that
> | > networked
> | > | systems to use the same time constant. The "time of day" is only for
> human
> | > | consumption ;-)
> | >
> | > And that constant is/was GMT. However, GMT also provides area location
> | > {longitude}, adjusting zone rather than clock is not exactly accurate.
> | > Example - if I adjust where I'm sitting to -0400
> longitude[timezonewise],
> | > I'm sitting at the bottom of the ocean latitude-wise [somewhere off the
> | > shore - adjusting my physical location, latitude and longitude,
> virtually].
> | > Granted: *time zones* are not the same as longitude lines, having been
> set
> | > by legislative activities, however, the absolute of GMT [Greenwich Mean
> | > Time] and its relationship to the world then becomes just another
> | > manipulative exponent, hardly what can be considered as constant if its
> | > relationship is and can be varied *virtually*, I think a navigator using
> a
> | > sextant might agree..
> | >
> |
> | GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
> | The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of the equation.
> |
> | If you are calculating your geographic location, you need to adjust
> | accordingly.
>
> Then what you suggest is that mariners and aviators adjust their
> chronometer to DST [should that be required] adding that calculation to the
> equation to determine position?

Do they still use chronometers?

I'm not suggesting they do or don't adjust to DST. But yeah, whatever your
clock's offset to the constant, you'd have to calculate that in. There is only
the one "point in time", no matter what the clock reads.

[Rick Chauvin]

"Bill Blanton" > wrote in message

> "Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Rick, I don't think your system is on daylight savings time? EST should
>>> be GMT-400 during DST, and -500 when not.
>
>
>>> It could be that he turned off the "auto adjust" and set his clock back
>>> manually. The clocks right, but offset is off.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>> You are quite right on all counts Bill.
>> I am in EST but as you said my computer is set GMT-0500 and yes I do
>> have Auto Adjust turned off and always have set it manually the first
>> of the year. I've done that since Win9x because back then it drove me
>> crazy when auto adjust was on it would scramble my Desktop icons when
>> it auto adjusted, and so out of habit right along had set my W2K/WXP
>> that way too, and have been staying booted and posting with XP this
>> year anyway. I assume XP/2K never scrambles desktop icons after an
>> time auto adjust?
>
> I've never seen XP scramble (or unscramble) desktop icons for that
> reason, though I have a vague recollection of what you mention on some 9x
> systems.

Okay good, but I've seen XP scramble the order of them in another instance
anyway.


> On a side note; if you have any volumes formatted as NTFS, the displayed
> file timestamps will be adjusted when the time offset changes. NTFS
> stores timestamps at UTC, and computes in the offset for the display.

Okay, good to know.


>> I just now check marked the box to Auto Adjust, and my time jumped
>> ahead an hour which is incorrect, so I manually adjusted the clock back
>> an hour but leaving the box checkmarked; I hope this solves the problem.

> I can't vouch for the clock ;-) , but the offset now looks good..

Okay Bill, thank you very much for posting to solve the issue.

I've much appreciated your valuable input over the years.

Rick

...it's almost November, so get your 10 gal frylator out.

[Rick Chauvin]

"PCR" > wrote in message

[....]

> You are welcome. Looks to me that did it...!...
>
> Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:32:44 -0400 9/26/08 6:32 PM
>
> Now I see your OE header date & my OE "sent" column date of your post
> match. That is as it should be, because we are in the same time zone. It
> didn't occur to me you had the auto time adjustment turned off & did it
> manually. Good thinking on Blanton's part as usual. OK, I'm taking you
> off my naughty list, Chauvin-- for posting responses before the OP has
> posted as you did in an earlier thread!

Excellent, great, and thanks PCR for sticking to your guns on this one, and
you're effort.

Another MVP mentioned on this forum he last year that my date stamp was
off, I think it was Jeff maybe, but I discounted it at the time and thought
it was just my isp server issue; sorry about that Jeff.

> I've never noticed my own Desktop got mussed over that the auto date
> change. Next time I'll have to go look! But you always could just have
> used something like WinTidy to fix that.

I've always seen everyone elses do it on 9x. I personally had lots of
shortcuts in a particular order there, and was a pita to put them back the
way I wanted. I used to take a screenshot of the desktop order now and
then, and save it, so I would have what it was and was quite fussy about
it. I've never liked the idea of installing a third party program to keep
track of my desktop icons, although I tested a number of them, but never
found one I wanted. I don't have to worry about it anymore anyway so it's
a null point.

Thanks for the reply PCR, and MEB too.

Have a good one.

Rick

> --
> Thanks or Good Luck,
> There may be humor in this post, and,
> Naturally, you will not sue,
> Should things get worse after this,
> PCR
>

[MEB[_2_]]

"Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
...
|
| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
...
| >
| > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
| > ...
| > | "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
| > ...
| > | > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
| > | > ...
| > |
| > | > | > which is a
| > | > | > simple but rather sloppy way to change the time as that places
those
| > it
| > | > | > affects in the wrong geographic regions.
| > | > |
| > | > | GMT is a constant. If you "spring" forward an hour it's necessary
to
| > | > "adjust" to
| > | > | reflect the new relationship to the constant. It's important that
| > | > networked
| > | > | systems to use the same time constant. The "time of day" is only
for
| > human
| > | > | consumption ;-)
| > | >
| > | > And that constant is/was GMT. However, GMT also provides area
location
| > | > {longitude}, adjusting zone rather than clock is not exactly
accurate.
| > | > Example - if I adjust where I'm sitting to -0400
| > longitude[timezonewise],
| > | > I'm sitting at the bottom of the ocean latitude-wise [somewhere off
the
| > | > shore - adjusting my physical location, latitude and longitude,
| > virtually].
| > | > Granted: *time zones* are not the same as longitude lines, having
been
| > set
| > | > by legislative activities, however, the absolute of GMT [Greenwich
Mean
| > | > Time] and its relationship to the world then becomes just another
| > | > manipulative exponent, hardly what can be considered as constant if
its
| > | > relationship is and can be varied *virtually*, I think a navigator
using
| > a
| > | > sextant might agree..
| > | >
| > |
| > | GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
| > | The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of the equation.
| > |
| > | If you are calculating your geographic location, you need to adjust
| > | accordingly.
| >
| > Then what you suggest is that mariners and aviators adjust their
| > chronometer to DST [should that be required] adding that calculation to
the
| > equation to determine position?
|
| Do they still use chronometers?
|
| I'm not suggesting they do or don't adjust to DST. But yeah, whatever your
| clock's offset to the constant, you'd have to calculate that in. There is
only
| the one "point in time", no matter what the clock reads.
|

So we come full circle, to how easy, yet sloppy, this time adjustment
method is. The ONLY way to allow this {for this to work} using this method,
is to modify EVERY computer and network around the world each and every time
some modification is made. A failure ANYWHERE throws the entire system off.
This also would seem to allow some vulnerabilities to occur. Server
identifiers, DNS, registrar services, message headers, IP packet formation,
and other, could, potentially, be affected due to actual physical location
variances.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~

[PCR]

Rick Chauvin wrote:
| "PCR" > wrote in message
|
| [....]
|
|> You are welcome. Looks to me that did it...!...
|>
|> Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:32:44 -0400 9/26/08 6:32 PM
|>
|> Now I see your OE header date & my OE "sent" column date of your post
|> match. That is as it should be, because we are in the same time
|> zone. It didn't occur to me you had the auto time adjustment turned
|> off & did it manually. Good thinking on Blanton's part as usual. OK,
|> I'm taking you off my naughty list, Chauvin-- for posting responses
|> before the OP has posted as you did in an earlier thread!
|
| Excellent, great, and thanks PCR for sticking to your guns on this
| one, and you're effort.

You are welcome. But it wouldn't have taken much for you to convince me
mine was the wacky one, until MEB & Blanton dropped in anyhow.

| Another MVP mentioned on this forum he last year that my date stamp
| was off, I think it was Jeff maybe, but I discounted it at the time
| and thought it was just my isp server issue; sorry about that Jeff.

Richards is a sharp one. I must have been there too, & it explains why I
dimly recall this has all happened before.

|> I've never noticed my own Desktop got mussed over that the auto date
|> change. Next time I'll have to go look! But you always could just
|> have used something like WinTidy to fix that.
|
| I've always seen everyone elses do it on 9x. I personally had lots of
| shortcuts in a particular order there, and was a pita to put them
| back the way I wanted. I used to take a screenshot of the desktop
| order now and then, and save it, so I would have what it was and was
| quite fussy about it. I've never liked the idea of installing a
| third party program to keep track of my desktop icons, although I
| tested a number of them, but never found one I wanted. I don't have
| to worry about it anymore anyway so it's a null point.

WinTidy2 (Neil J. Rubenking) is pretty nice. I don't keep it running,
but only start it when necessary. I haven't noticed it to be necessary
except after I've been to Safe Mode & back-- that what musses icon
positions for me for sure.

| Thanks for the reply PCR, and MEB too.

You are welcome.

| Have a good one.

You too. Glad to have been of assistance. It's been a mind-twister. But
Blanton dropped in with the explanation before it was twisted dry!

| Rick
|
|> --
|> Thanks or Good Luck,
|> There may be humor in this post, and,
|> Naturally, you will not sue,
|> Should things get worse after this,
|> PCR
|>

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

[Bill Blanton]

"MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message ...
> "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message

> | > | GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
> | > | The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of the equation.
> | > |
> | > | If you are calculating your geographic location, you need to adjust
> | > | accordingly.
> | >
> | > Then what you suggest is that mariners and aviators adjust their
> | > chronometer to DST [should that be required] adding that calculation to the
> | > equation to determine position?
> |

> |
> | I'm not suggesting they do or don't adjust to DST. But yeah, whatever your
> | clock's offset to the constant, you'd have to calculate that in. There is only
> | the one "point in time", no matter what the clock reads.
> |
>
> So we come full circle, to how easy, yet sloppy, this time adjustment
> method is. The ONLY way to allow this {for this to work} using this method,
> is to modify EVERY computer and network around the world each and every time
> some modification is made.

I don't see it as sloppy really. You have the agreed upon "constant" GMT, and
then you modify that according to your "zone". Add or subtract the offset
from the "clock" to determine "universal time".

What's the alternative? We could all use the GMT/UTC. (I wouldn't have to go
to work until noon, though the sun would be rising).


> A failure ANYWHERE throws the entire system off.

It does in a way... though it wasn't too catastrophic in this case.


> This also would seem to allow some vulnerabilities to occur. Server
> identifiers, DNS, registrar services, message headers, IP packet formation,
> and other, could, potentially, be affected due to actual physical location
> variances.

That's soemthing to think about...however;

The variances (or offsets of) the "physical location" don't matter as long as
you resolve correctly to the constant..

Where you are doesn't matter as long as your time offset to GMT is correct. I
could set my clock forward 9 more minutes EST/DST, and then fly to the Pacific
coast. As long as I adjust my offset accordingly, say GMT -03:51, and my clock
is still at EST/DST+00:09, then it will resolve to GMT correctly. And if I'm
navigating I need to take that offset into consideration to get the time at
longitude zero.

[Bill Blanton]

"Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
>
>> "Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> Rick, I don't think your system is on daylight savings time? EST should
>>>> be GMT-400 during DST, and -500 when not.
>>
>>
>>>> It could be that he turned off the "auto adjust" and set his clock back
>>>> manually. The clocks right, but offset is off.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Hi Bill,
>>>
>>> You are quite right on all counts Bill.
>>> I am in EST but as you said my computer is set GMT-0500 and yes I do
>>> have Auto Adjust turned off and always have set it manually the first
>>> of the year. I've done that since Win9x because back then it drove me
>>> crazy when auto adjust was on it would scramble my Desktop icons when
>>> it auto adjusted, and so out of habit right along had set my W2K/WXP
>>> that way too, and have been staying booted and posting with XP this
>>> year anyway. I assume XP/2K never scrambles desktop icons after an
>>> time auto adjust?
>>
>> I've never seen XP scramble (or unscramble) desktop icons for that
>> reason, though I have a vague recollection of what you mention on some 9x
>> systems.
>
> Okay good, but I've seen XP scramble the order of them in another instance
> anyway.
>
>
>> On a side note; if you have any volumes formatted as NTFS, the displayed
>> file timestamps will be adjusted when the time offset changes. NTFS
>> stores timestamps at UTC, and computes in the offset for the display.
>
> Okay, good to know.
>
>
>>> I just now check marked the box to Auto Adjust, and my time jumped
>>> ahead an hour which is incorrect, so I manually adjusted the clock back
>>> an hour but leaving the box checkmarked; I hope this solves the problem.
>
>> I can't vouch for the clock ;-) , but the offset now looks good..
>
> Okay Bill, thank you very much for posting to solve the issue.
>
> I've much appreciated your valuable input over the years.
>
> Rick
>
> ..it's almost November, so get your 10 gal frylator out.

Already?.. It seems like I just got rid of the oil from last year ;-)

[MEB[_2_]]

"Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
...
| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
...
| > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
|
| > | > | GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
| > | > | The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of the
equation.
| > | > |
| > | > | If you are calculating your geographic location, you need to
adjust
| > | > | accordingly.
| > | >
| > | > Then what you suggest is that mariners and aviators adjust their
| > | > chronometer to DST [should that be required] adding that calculation
to the
| > | > equation to determine position?
| > |
|
| > |
| > | I'm not suggesting they do or don't adjust to DST. But yeah, whatever
your
| > | clock's offset to the constant, you'd have to calculate that in. There
is only
| > | the one "point in time", no matter what the clock reads.
| > |
| >
| > So we come full circle, to how easy, yet sloppy, this time adjustment
| > method is. The ONLY way to allow this {for this to work} using this
method,
| > is to modify EVERY computer and network around the world each and every
time
| > some modification is made.
|
| I don't see it as sloppy really. You have the agreed upon "constant" GMT,
and
| then you modify that according to your "zone". Add or subtract the offset
| from the "clock" to determine "universal time".
|
| What's the alternative? We could all use the GMT/UTC. (I wouldn't have to
go
| to work until noon, though the sun would be rising).
|
|
| > A failure ANYWHERE throws the entire system off.
|
| It does in a way... though it wasn't too catastrophic in this case.
|
|
| > This also would seem to allow some vulnerabilities to occur. Server
| > identifiers, DNS, registrar services, message headers, IP packet
formation,
| > and other, could, potentially, be affected due to actual physical
location
| > variances.
|
| That's soemthing to think about...however;
|
| The variances (or offsets of) the "physical location" don't matter as long
as
| you resolve correctly to the constant..
|
| Where you are doesn't matter as long as your time offset to GMT is
correct. I
| could set my clock forward 9 more minutes EST/DST, and then fly to the
Pacific
| coast. As long as I adjust my offset accordingly, say GMT -03:51, and my
clock
| is still at EST/DST+00:09, then it will resolve to GMT correctly. And if
I'm
| navigating I need to take that offset into consideration to get the time
at
| longitude zero.
|

Yes that would work for you, but you ONLY. It would NOT work for the
airline, terminal, flight controllers, or others around you either where you
took off or where you landed.. Nor would it work personally if you needed to
be somewhere at a specific time, UNLESS you constantly adjusted real time to
your private time in addition to any real time offsets [having not further
changed your personal watch/clock].

Need we re-review the [projected and at times real] panic that ensued
during the millenium change over and the BIOS, OS, and related issues [such
as 1999 - 999 - 99]. I think not, as they where reviewed and documented on
hundreds of sites, government bulletins, software updates, BIOS and other
related... what COULD have happened is also well documented, moreover, these
DID cause numerous issues, from electric supply failures, to system and
network crashes, Internet interruption, to numerous others. Of course we
made it through those times... but they DO display both the vulnerabilities
AND other related to any such issues.

Think that might help explain why XP and VISTA use GMT/UTC? And why I think
this is zone shift a sloppy way to provide the changes?

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~

[Rick Chauvin]

"Bill Blanton" > wrote in message


[....]

>> ..it's almost November, so get your 10 gal frylator out.

> Already?.. It seems like I just got rid of the oil from last year ;-)

I was told the older you get the faster time seems to go by.

I've found it to be true! The years are flying by way to fast.

One more question about the time thing. When I had check marked the box to
Auto Adjust DST the other day my clock immediately moved ahead a hour, and
so I had to move it back and hour to be correct, now this does not mean
that come 1/1/09 when it changes automatically it's going to be off an hour
again? I assume it will change itself correctly now? Thinking of which,
since I live in NH we have this thing where they do DST a few weeks earlier
than normal, how is that going to work? I never bothered with paying much
attention to all these patches to fix this and that with the time thing,
and just assumed it was included in SP3.

Rick

[PCR]

Rick Chauvin wrote:
| "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
|
|
| [....]
|
|>> ..it's almost November, so get your 10 gal frylator out.
|
|> Already?.. It seems like I just got rid of the oil from last year ;-)
|
| I was told the older you get the faster time seems to go by.
|
| I've found it to be true! The years are flying by way to fast.
|
| One more question about the time thing. When I had check marked the
| box to Auto Adjust DST the other day my clock immediately moved ahead
| a hour, and so I had to move it back and hour to be correct, now this
| does not mean that come 1/1/09 when it changes automatically it's
| going to be off an hour again? I assume it will change itself
| correctly now? Thinking of which, since I live in NH we have this
| thing where they do DST a few weeks earlier than normal, how is that
| going to work? I never bothered with paying much attention to all
| these patches to fix this and that with the time thing, and just
| assumed it was included in SP3.

That's right-- DST is plus one hour. When DST is over, your clock will
go back an hour. Very good! But verify your dates are correct (as
Blanton pointed out currently there is overlap with the old dates-- BOTH
are in DST now!) using TZEdit.

Run TZEdit, Chauvin, if it will work in XP...
http://www.softshape.com/cham/manual/tzedit.htm
TZEdit.

Set it to comply with the following, if it isn't already so...
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=68
Current local time in Concord
......Quote...................
UTC/GMT Offset
Standard time zone: UTC/GMT -5 hours
Daylight saving time: +1 hour
Current time zone offset: UTC/GMT -4 hours
Time zone abbreviation: EDT - Eastern Daylight Time

Daylight Saving Time
DST started on Sunday, March 9, 2008 at 2:00 AM local standard time
DST ends on Sunday, November 2, 2008 at 2:00 AM local daylight time
......EOQ.....................

Set it to start on the SECOND Sunday of March & end on the FIRST Sunday
in November. (The precise day won't matter-- TZEdit goes by 1st & 2nd.)

That's the same for everyone, though, who is in DST-- not just New
Hamshire. Maybe they've stopped the foolishness of doing it weeks
earlier since the big change back in '07.

| Rick

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

[Bill Blanton]

"MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message ...
>
> "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
> ...
> | "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
> ...
> | > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
> |
> | > | > | GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
> | > | > | The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of the
> equation.
> | > | > |
> | > | > | If you are calculating your geographic location, you need to
> adjust
> | > | > | accordingly.
> | > | >
> | > | > Then what you suggest is that mariners and aviators adjust their
> | > | > chronometer to DST [should that be required] adding that calculation
> to the
> | > | > equation to determine position?
> | > |
> |
> | > |
> | > | I'm not suggesting they do or don't adjust to DST. But yeah, whatever
> your
> | > | clock's offset to the constant, you'd have to calculate that in. There
> is only
> | > | the one "point in time", no matter what the clock reads.
> | > |
> | >
> | > So we come full circle, to how easy, yet sloppy, this time adjustment
> | > method is. The ONLY way to allow this {for this to work} using this
> method,
> | > is to modify EVERY computer and network around the world each and every
> time
> | > some modification is made.
> |
> | I don't see it as sloppy really. You have the agreed upon "constant" GMT,
> and
> | then you modify that according to your "zone". Add or subtract the offset
> | from the "clock" to determine "universal time".
> |
> | What's the alternative? We could all use the GMT/UTC. (I wouldn't have to
> go
> | to work until noon, though the sun would be rising).
> |
> |
> | > A failure ANYWHERE throws the entire system off.
> |
> | It does in a way... though it wasn't too catastrophic in this case.
> |
> |
> | > This also would seem to allow some vulnerabilities to occur. Server
> | > identifiers, DNS, registrar services, message headers, IP packet
> formation,
> | > and other, could, potentially, be affected due to actual physical
> location
> | > variances.
> |
> | That's soemthing to think about...however;
> |
> | The variances (or offsets of) the "physical location" don't matter as long
> as
> | you resolve correctly to the constant..
> |
> | Where you are doesn't matter as long as your time offset to GMT is
> correct. I
> | could set my clock forward 9 more minutes EST/DST, and then fly to the
> Pacific
> | coast. As long as I adjust my offset accordingly, say GMT -03:51, and my
> clock
> | is still at EST/DST+00:09, then it will resolve to GMT correctly. And if
> I'm
> | navigating I need to take that offset into consideration to get the time
> at
> | longitude zero.
> |
>
> Yes that would work for you, but you ONLY. It would NOT work for the
> airline, terminal, flight controllers, or others around you either where you
> took off or where you landed.. Nor would it work personally if you needed to
> be somewhere at a specific time, UNLESS you constantly adjusted real time to
> your private time in addition to any real time offsets [having not further
> changed your personal watch/clock].

I don't want to belabor this.. if you know the time at point zero on a sphere,
and the angle of the sun, you can calculate your latitude.

I don't know enough about sextants, chronometers, and the positions of the
stars to explain it any better.

As far as the aviation industry, I'm pretty sure they use GPS.




> Need we re-review the [projected and at times real] panic that ensued
> during the millenium change over and the BIOS, OS, and related issues [such
> as 1999 - 999 - 99]. I think not, as they where reviewed and documented on
> hundreds of sites, government bulletins, software updates, BIOS and other
> related... what COULD have happened is also well documented, moreover, these
> DID cause numerous issues, from electric supply failures, to system and
> network crashes, Internet interruption, to numerous others. Of course we
> made it through those times... but they DO display both the vulnerabilities
> AND other related to any such issues.
>
> Think that might help explain why XP and VISTA use GMT/UTC? And why I think
> this is zone shift a sloppy way to provide the changes?

So again, what do you propose as an alternative?

[Bill Blanton]

"Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message ...
> "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
>
>
> [....]

> One more question about the time thing. When I had check marked the box to
> Auto Adjust DST the other day my clock immediately moved ahead a hour, and
> so I had to move it back and hour to be correct, now this does not mean
> that come 1/1/09 when it changes automatically it's going to be off an hour
> again? I assume it will change itself correctly now? Thinking of which,
> since I live in NH we have this thing where they do DST a few weeks earlier
> than normal, how is that going to work? I never bothered with paying much
> attention to all these patches to fix this and that with the time thing,
> and just assumed it was included in SP3.

Yes, it will adjust automatically, though I have no idea about the NH rule.
It (the NH zone) doesn't appear in my XP-SP3 system, as does IN, which
I think also has its own rules.

SP3 includes the patch to modify the date on which the zones change, so
it may be as PCR says?

[FromTheRafters[_2_]]

Thanks a lot guys - I used to think I knew what time it was,
now I'm not so sure. :o\

....and I gotta be at work at 8:30 AM Eastern Daylight New Hampshire
Savings Time (I think?). Keene, not Spofford but I don't think I cross
any timezones on my commute. So when do I go to Eastern Daylight
New Hampshire Wastings Time?

[MEB[_2_]]

"Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
...
|
| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
...
| >
| > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
| > ...
| > | "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
| > ...
| > | > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
| > |
| > | > | > | GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
| > | > | > | The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of the
| > equation.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | If you are calculating your geographic location, you need to
| > adjust
| > | > | > | accordingly.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Then what you suggest is that mariners and aviators adjust their
| > | > | > chronometer to DST [should that be required] adding that
calculation
| > to the
| > | > | > equation to determine position?
| > | > |
| > |
| > | > |
| > | > | I'm not suggesting they do or don't adjust to DST. But yeah,
whatever
| > your
| > | > | clock's offset to the constant, you'd have to calculate that in.
There
| > is only
| > | > | the one "point in time", no matter what the clock reads.
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | > So we come full circle, to how easy, yet sloppy, this time
adjustment
| > | > method is. The ONLY way to allow this {for this to work} using this
| > method,
| > | > is to modify EVERY computer and network around the world each and
every
| > time
| > | > some modification is made.
| > |
| > | I don't see it as sloppy really. You have the agreed upon "constant"
GMT,
| > and
| > | then you modify that according to your "zone". Add or subtract the
offset
| > | from the "clock" to determine "universal time".
| > |
| > | What's the alternative? We could all use the GMT/UTC. (I wouldn't have
to
| > go
| > | to work until noon, though the sun would be rising).
| > |
| > |
| > | > A failure ANYWHERE throws the entire system off.
| > |
| > | It does in a way... though it wasn't too catastrophic in this case.
| > |
| > |
| > | > This also would seem to allow some vulnerabilities to occur. Server
| > | > identifiers, DNS, registrar services, message headers, IP packet
| > formation,
| > | > and other, could, potentially, be affected due to actual physical
| > location
| > | > variances.
| > |
| > | That's soemthing to think about...however;
| > |
| > | The variances (or offsets of) the "physical location" don't matter as
long
| > as
| > | you resolve correctly to the constant..
| > |
| > | Where you are doesn't matter as long as your time offset to GMT is
| > correct. I
| > | could set my clock forward 9 more minutes EST/DST, and then fly to the
| > Pacific
| > | coast. As long as I adjust my offset accordingly, say GMT -03:51, and
my
| > clock
| > | is still at EST/DST+00:09, then it will resolve to GMT correctly. And
if
| > I'm
| > | navigating I need to take that offset into consideration to get the
time
| > at
| > | longitude zero.
| > |
| >
| > Yes that would work for you, but you ONLY. It would NOT work for the
| > airline, terminal, flight controllers, or others around you either where
you
| > took off or where you landed.. Nor would it work personally if you
needed to
| > be somewhere at a specific time, UNLESS you constantly adjusted real
time to
| > your private time in addition to any real time offsets [having not
further
| > changed your personal watch/clock].
|
| I don't want to belabor this.. if you know the time at point zero on a
sphere,
| and the angle of the sun, you can calculate your latitude.
|
| I don't know enough about sextants, chronometers, and the positions of the
| stars to explain it any better.
|
| As far as the aviation industry, I'm pretty sure they use GPS.
|
|
|
|
| > Need we re-review the [projected and at times real] panic that ensued
| > during the millenium change over and the BIOS, OS, and related issues
[such
| > as 1999 - 999 - 99]. I think not, as they where reviewed and documented
on
| > hundreds of sites, government bulletins, software updates, BIOS and
other
| > related... what COULD have happened is also well documented, moreover,
these
| > DID cause numerous issues, from electric supply failures, to system and
| > network crashes, Internet interruption, to numerous others. Of course we
| > made it through those times... but they DO display both the
vulnerabilities
| > AND other related to any such issues.
| >
| > Think that might help explain why XP and VISTA use GMT/UTC? And why I
think
| > this is zone shift a sloppy way to provide the changes?
|
| So again, what do you propose as an alternative?
|

Ah how about something more appropriate, like a TIME change.. you know,
uhoh, here's the date, here's the change, one hour back on the clock....
UHOH, here's the date, here's the change, one hour up on the clock. Isn't
that what you do with your watch and clocks?

But wait you say, how would I synchronize with the Atomic clocks I
contact,,, they work only from actual time adjusted to offset.... hmmm,
how about, uhoh, here's the date, here's the change, all automatic [network]
modifications are so adjusted.. makes the need adjusted properly to the
clock control program or other control... keeps you GPS located and makes
the network fully synced.... wacha tink, do da servers uz DST zone shift er
GMT/UTC offset wif clock change

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~

[MEB[_2_]]

That's easy, when you go home........

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~
"FromTheRafters" > wrote in message
...
| Thanks a lot guys - I used to think I knew what time it was,
| now I'm not so sure. :o\
|
| ...and I gotta be at work at 8:30 AM Eastern Daylight New Hampshire
| Savings Time (I think?). Keene, not Spofford but I don't think I cross
| any timezones on my commute. So when do I go to Eastern Daylight
| New Hampshire Wastings Time?
|
|

[Bill Blanton]

"MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message ...
>
> "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
> ...
> |
> | "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
> ...
> | >
> | > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
> | > ...
> | > | "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
> | > ...
> | > | > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
> | > |
> | > | > | > | GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
> | > | > | > | The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of the
> | > equation.
> | > | > | > |
> | > | > | > | If you are calculating your geographic location, you need to
> | > adjust
> | > | > | > | accordingly.
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > Then what you suggest is that mariners and aviators adjust their
> | > | > | > chronometer to DST [should that be required] adding that
> calculation
> | > to the
> | > | > | > equation to determine position?
> | > | > |
> | > |
> | > | > |
> | > | > | I'm not suggesting they do or don't adjust to DST. But yeah,
> whatever
> | > your
> | > | > | clock's offset to the constant, you'd have to calculate that in.
> There
> | > is only
> | > | > | the one "point in time", no matter what the clock reads.
> | > | > |
> | > | >
> | > | > So we come full circle, to how easy, yet sloppy, this time
> adjustment
> | > | > method is. The ONLY way to allow this {for this to work} using this
> | > method,
> | > | > is to modify EVERY computer and network around the world each and
> every
> | > time
> | > | > some modification is made.
> | > |
> | > | I don't see it as sloppy really. You have the agreed upon "constant"
> GMT,
> | > and
> | > | then you modify that according to your "zone". Add or subtract the
> offset
> | > | from the "clock" to determine "universal time".
> | > |
> | > | What's the alternative? We could all use the GMT/UTC. (I wouldn't have
> to
> | > go
> | > | to work until noon, though the sun would be rising).
> | > |
> | > |
> | > | > A failure ANYWHERE throws the entire system off.
> | > |
> | > | It does in a way... though it wasn't too catastrophic in this case.
> | > |
> | > |
> | > | > This also would seem to allow some vulnerabilities to occur. Server
> | > | > identifiers, DNS, registrar services, message headers, IP packet
> | > formation,
> | > | > and other, could, potentially, be affected due to actual physical
> | > location
> | > | > variances.
> | > |
> | > | That's soemthing to think about...however;
> | > |
> | > | The variances (or offsets of) the "physical location" don't matter as
> long
> | > as
> | > | you resolve correctly to the constant..
> | > |
> | > | Where you are doesn't matter as long as your time offset to GMT is
> | > correct. I
> | > | could set my clock forward 9 more minutes EST/DST, and then fly to the
> | > Pacific
> | > | coast. As long as I adjust my offset accordingly, say GMT -03:51, and
> my
> | > clock
> | > | is still at EST/DST+00:09, then it will resolve to GMT correctly. And
> if
> | > I'm
> | > | navigating I need to take that offset into consideration to get the
> time
> | > at
> | > | longitude zero.
> | > |
> | >
> | > Yes that would work for you, but you ONLY. It would NOT work for the
> | > airline, terminal, flight controllers, or others around you either where
> you
> | > took off or where you landed.. Nor would it work personally if you
> needed to
> | > be somewhere at a specific time, UNLESS you constantly adjusted real
> time to
> | > your private time in addition to any real time offsets [having not
> further
> | > changed your personal watch/clock].
> |
> | I don't want to belabor this.. if you know the time at point zero on a
> sphere,
> | and the angle of the sun, you can calculate your latitude.
> |
> | I don't know enough about sextants, chronometers, and the positions of the
> | stars to explain it any better.
> |
> | As far as the aviation industry, I'm pretty sure they use GPS.
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | > Need we re-review the [projected and at times real] panic that ensued
> | > during the millenium change over and the BIOS, OS, and related issues
> [such
> | > as 1999 - 999 - 99]. I think not, as they where reviewed and documented
> on
> | > hundreds of sites, government bulletins, software updates, BIOS and
> other
> | > related... what COULD have happened is also well documented, moreover,
> these
> | > DID cause numerous issues, from electric supply failures, to system and
> | > network crashes, Internet interruption, to numerous others. Of course we
> | > made it through those times... but they DO display both the
> vulnerabilities
> | > AND other related to any such issues.
> | >
> | > Think that might help explain why XP and VISTA use GMT/UTC? And why I
> think
> | > this is zone shift a sloppy way to provide the changes?
> |
> | So again, what do you propose as an alternative?
> |
>
> Ah how about something more appropriate, like a TIME change.. you know,
> uhoh, here's the date, here's the change, one hour back on the clock....
> UHOH, here's the date, here's the change, one hour up on the clock. Isn't
> that what you do with your watch and clocks?

Why should it be the "same time" on the East side of the zone as the West
side of the zone? Maybe we should all be on sidereal time?
http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/sidereal.html


> But wait you say, how would I synchronize with the Atomic clocks I
> contact,,, they work only from actual time adjusted to offset.... hmmm,
> how about, uhoh, here's the date, here's the change, all automatic [network]
> modifications are so adjusted.. makes the need adjusted properly to the
> clock control program or other control... keeps you GPS located and makes
> the network fully synced.... wacha tink, do da servers uz DST zone shift er
> GMT/UTC offset wif clock change

I really have no idea what you're trying to say...

[Bill Blanton]

Does anybody really know what time it is...
Does anybody really care... [Chicago]


"FromTheRafters" > wrote in message ...
> Thanks a lot guys - I used to think I knew what time it was,
> now I'm not so sure. :o\
>
> ...and I gotta be at work at 8:30 AM Eastern Daylight New Hampshire
> Savings Time (I think?). Keene, not Spofford but I don't think I cross
> any timezones on my commute. So when do I go to Eastern Daylight
> New Hampshire Wastings Time?
>

[MEB[_2_]]

"Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
...
|
| "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
...
| >
| > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
| > ...
| > |
| > | "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
| > ...
| > | >
| > | > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
| > | > ...
| > | > | "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
| > | > ...
| > | > | > "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
| > | > |
| > | > | > | > | GMT/UTC is still a constant. The time at longitude 0.
| > | > | > | > | The (manipulative) variable is the "time zone" factor of
the
| > | > equation.
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | If you are calculating your geographic location, you need
to
| > | > adjust
| > | > | > | > | accordingly.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Then what you suggest is that mariners and aviators adjust
their
| > | > | > | > chronometer to DST [should that be required] adding that
| > calculation
| > | > to the
| > | > | > | > equation to determine position?
| > | > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | I'm not suggesting they do or don't adjust to DST. But yeah,
| > whatever
| > | > your
| > | > | > | clock's offset to the constant, you'd have to calculate that
in.
| > There
| > | > is only
| > | > | > | the one "point in time", no matter what the clock reads.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | >
| > | > | > So we come full circle, to how easy, yet sloppy, this time
| > adjustment
| > | > | > method is. The ONLY way to allow this {for this to work} using
this
| > | > method,
| > | > | > is to modify EVERY computer and network around the world each
and
| > every
| > | > time
| > | > | > some modification is made.
| > | > |
| > | > | I don't see it as sloppy really. You have the agreed upon
"constant"
| > GMT,
| > | > and
| > | > | then you modify that according to your "zone". Add or subtract the
| > offset
| > | > | from the "clock" to determine "universal time".
| > | > |
| > | > | What's the alternative? We could all use the GMT/UTC. (I wouldn't
have
| > to
| > | > go
| > | > | to work until noon, though the sun would be rising).
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | > A failure ANYWHERE throws the entire system off.
| > | > |
| > | > | It does in a way... though it wasn't too catastrophic in this
case.
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | > This also would seem to allow some vulnerabilities to occur.
Server
| > | > | > identifiers, DNS, registrar services, message headers, IP packet
| > | > formation,
| > | > | > and other, could, potentially, be affected due to actual
physical
| > | > location
| > | > | > variances.
| > | > |
| > | > | That's soemthing to think about...however;
| > | > |
| > | > | The variances (or offsets of) the "physical location" don't matter
as
| > long
| > | > as
| > | > | you resolve correctly to the constant..
| > | > |
| > | > | Where you are doesn't matter as long as your time offset to GMT is
| > | > correct. I
| > | > | could set my clock forward 9 more minutes EST/DST, and then fly to
the
| > | > Pacific
| > | > | coast. As long as I adjust my offset accordingly, say GMT -03:51,
and
| > my
| > | > clock
| > | > | is still at EST/DST+00:09, then it will resolve to GMT correctly.
And
| > if
| > | > I'm
| > | > | navigating I need to take that offset into consideration to get
the
| > time
| > | > at
| > | > | longitude zero.
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | > Yes that would work for you, but you ONLY. It would NOT work for the
| > | > airline, terminal, flight controllers, or others around you either
where
| > you
| > | > took off or where you landed.. Nor would it work personally if you
| > needed to
| > | > be somewhere at a specific time, UNLESS you constantly adjusted real
| > time to
| > | > your private time in addition to any real time offsets [having not
| > further
| > | > changed your personal watch/clock].
| > |
| > | I don't want to belabor this.. if you know the time at point zero on a
| > sphere,
| > | and the angle of the sun, you can calculate your latitude.
| > |
| > | I don't know enough about sextants, chronometers, and the positions of
the
| > | stars to explain it any better.
| > |
| > | As far as the aviation industry, I'm pretty sure they use GPS.
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | > Need we re-review the [projected and at times real] panic that
ensued
| > | > during the millenium change over and the BIOS, OS, and related
issues
| > [such
| > | > as 1999 - 999 - 99]. I think not, as they where reviewed and
documented
| > on
| > | > hundreds of sites, government bulletins, software updates, BIOS and
| > other
| > | > related... what COULD have happened is also well documented,
moreover,
| > these
| > | > DID cause numerous issues, from electric supply failures, to system
and
| > | > network crashes, Internet interruption, to numerous others. Of
course we
| > | > made it through those times... but they DO display both the
| > vulnerabilities
| > | > AND other related to any such issues.
| > | >
| > | > Think that might help explain why XP and VISTA use GMT/UTC? And why
I
| > think
| > | > this is zone shift a sloppy way to provide the changes?
| > |
| > | So again, what do you propose as an alternative?
| > |
| >
| > Ah how about something more appropriate, like a TIME change.. you know,
| > uhoh, here's the date, here's the change, one hour back on the clock....
| > UHOH, here's the date, here's the change, one hour up on the clock.
Isn't
| > that what you do with your watch and clocks?
|
| Why should it be the "same time" on the East side of the zone as the West
| side of the zone? Maybe we should all be on sidereal time?
| http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/sidereal.html
|
|
| > But wait you say, how would I synchronize with the Atomic clocks I
| > contact,,, they work only from actual time adjusted to offset.... hmmm,
| > how about, uhoh, here's the date, here's the change, all automatic
[network]
| > modifications are so adjusted.. makes the need adjusted properly to the
| > clock control program or other control... keeps you GPS located and
makes
| > the network fully synced.... wacha tink, do da servers uz DST zone shift
er
| > GMT/UTC offset wif clock change
|
| I really have no idea what you're trying to say...
|

Okay then, let's get down to it::::

ALL of the issues have already been set forth and resolved when dealing
with the Internet, time, connected networks, protocol formation and
requirements, and pretty much everything else.. of course always open to
modification and updates, but the basics must be followed

Start here:
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2616.txt - Hypertext Transfer Protocol -- HTTP/1.1
popover here generally:
http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime
add this in:
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2396.txt - Uniform Resource Identifiers (URI):
Generic Syntax
notice this:
http://www.w3.org/XML/Schema -
consider this:
http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-xml-names-19990114/Overview.html - Namespaces
in XML, and modifications
you might cruise around over here:
http://www.cni.org/ - the Coalition for Networked Information

Of course there are dozens more, but this should provide a base to work
from....

Oh, don't forget this since nothing happens out here without it:
http://www.sans.org/info/3871 - TCP/IP handbook in PDF
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/internetworking/technology/handbook/Internet-Protocols.html -
Cisco - Internet Protocols

And if you feel up to it, compare IPv6 to IPv4....


--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~

[MEB[_2_]]

oh yeahhhhh

ahhh, there's someone over in win98.disks.general looking for help, I'm
going to direct them here since no-one appears to be monitoring that group
[except me]..... crosspost attempt... kill the crosspost if it gets here...

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~
"Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
...
| Does anybody really know what time it is...
| Does anybody really care... [Chicago]
|
|
| "FromTheRafters" > wrote in message
...
| > Thanks a lot guys - I used to think I knew what time it was,
| > now I'm not so sure. :o\
| >
| > ...and I gotta be at work at 8:30 AM Eastern Daylight New Hampshire
| > Savings Time (I think?). Keene, not Spofford but I don't think I cross
| > any timezones on my commute. So when do I go to Eastern Daylight
| > New Hampshire Wastings Time?
| >
|
|

[Etal]

Bill Blanton wrote:

>
> So again, what do you propose as an alternative?
>

That's easy. Just abolish the ludicrous construct known as
'Daylight Savings Time' (DST).

Timezones are necessary because we're on a globe spinning
around its axis. Agreeing on one zone being Zero and others
offset to that is logical. These are determined and set once and
for all (for the foreseeable future).

But we can't save time.
And we can't save daylight.
We can however try to fool ourselves .. with DST.

¿Merchants selling more when the sun is up.?
¿Laborers wanting more pay before or after a certain fixed hour.?
¿Inter-national trade-competition.?
DST, is illogical modifications changing from country to
country withing one timezone, and changing from year to year
within one country only to causing problems and misunderstandings.
DST is totally unnecessary. Instead allow for business to be
open, and employers to work, at different hours during the course
of the year if that works better, but stop trying to fool us that
we save daylight and or time.

(Rant over)

[Rick Chauvin]

"PCR" > wrote in message

> Rick Chauvin wrote:
>| "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
>|
>|
>| [....]
>|
>|>> ..it's almost November, so get your 10 gal frylator out.
>|
>|> Already?.. It seems like I just got rid of the oil from last year ;-)
>|
>| I was told the older you get the faster time seems to go by.
>|
>| I've found it to be true! The years are flying by way to fast.
>|
>| One more question about the time thing. When I had check marked the
>| box to Auto Adjust DST the other day my clock immediately moved ahead
>| a hour, and so I had to move it back and hour to be correct, now this
>| does not mean that come 1/1/09 when it changes automatically it's
>| going to be off an hour again? I assume it will change itself
>| correctly now? Thinking of which, since I live in NH we have this
>| thing where they do DST a few weeks earlier than normal, how is that
>| going to work? I never bothered with paying much attention to all
>| these patches to fix this and that with the time thing, and just
>| assumed it was included in SP3.
>
> That's right-- DST is plus one hour. When DST is over, your clock will
> go back an hour. Very good! But verify your dates are correct (as
> Blanton pointed out currently there is overlap with the old dates-- BOTH
> are in DST now!) using TZEdit.
>
> Run TZEdit, Chauvin, if it will work in XP...
> http://www.softshape.com/cham/manual/tzedit.htm
> TZEdit.
>
> Set it to comply with the following, if it isn't already so...
> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=68
> Current local time in Concord
> .....Quote...................
> UTC/GMT Offset
> Standard time zone: UTC/GMT -5 hours
> Daylight saving time: +1 hour
> Current time zone offset: UTC/GMT -4 hours
> Time zone abbreviation: EDT - Eastern Daylight Time
>
> Daylight Saving Time
> DST started on Sunday, March 9, 2008 at 2:00 AM local standard time
> DST ends on Sunday, November 2, 2008 at 2:00 AM local daylight time
> .....EOQ.....................
>
> Set it to start on the SECOND Sunday of March & end on the FIRST Sunday
> in November. (The precise day won't matter-- TZEdit goes by 1st & 2nd.)
>
> That's the same for everyone, though, who is in DST-- not just New
> Hamshire. Maybe they've stopped the foolishness of doing it weeks
> earlier since the big change back in '07.

Thanks PCR for gathering that info, and I've downloaded
TZEdit to do later when I have more time to play more than the moment.

Actually now that I've downloaded it I see that I already have it on my
drive in the W98SE partition under tools\reskit\config folder, which came
from the Retail SE CD itself that I had copied over to
c:\windows\options\cabs..

Anyway, thanks again for looking up that info which I've saved it all in
its folder.

Rick

PCR's new name handle is the Timeman :)

>
> --
> Thanks or Good Luck,
> There may be humor in this post, and,
> Naturally, you will not sue,
> Should things get worse after this,
> PCR
>

[Rick Chauvin]

"Bill Blanton" > wrote in message

> "Rick Chauvin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>> [....]
>
>> One more question about the time thing. When I had check marked the box
>> to Auto Adjust DST the other day my clock immediately moved ahead a
>> hour, and so I had to move it back and hour to be correct, now this
>> does not mean that come 1/1/09 when it changes automatically it's going
>> to be off an hour again? I assume it will change itself correctly now?
>> Thinking of which, since I live in NH we have this thing where they do
>> DST a few weeks earlier than normal, how is that going to work? I
>> never bothered with paying much attention to all these patches to fix
>> this and that with the time thing, and just assumed it was included in
>> SP3.
>
> Yes, it will adjust automatically, though I have no idea about the NH
> rule. It (the NH zone) doesn't appear in my XP-SP3 system, as does IN,
> which
> I think also has its own rules.
>
> SP3 includes the patch to modify the date on which the zones change, so
> it may be as PCR says?


Okay then, thanks

[PCR]

Rick Chauvin wrote:
| "PCR" > wrote in message
|
|> Rick Chauvin wrote:
|>| "Bill Blanton" > wrote in message
|>|
|>|
|>| [....]
|>|
|>|>> ..it's almost November, so get your 10 gal frylator out.
|>|
|>|> Already?.. It seems like I just got rid of the oil from last year
|>|> ;-)
|>|
|>| I was told the older you get the faster time seems to go by.
|>|
|>| I've found it to be true! The years are flying by way to fast.
|>|
|>| One more question about the time thing. When I had check marked the
|>| box to Auto Adjust DST the other day my clock immediately moved
|>| ahead a hour, and so I had to move it back and hour to be correct,
|>| now this does not mean that come 1/1/09 when it changes
|>| automatically it's going to be off an hour again? I assume it will
|>| change itself correctly now? Thinking of which, since I live in NH
|>| we have this thing where they do DST a few weeks earlier than
|>| normal, how is that going to work? I never bothered with paying
|>| much attention to all these patches to fix this and that with the
|>| time thing, and just assumed it was included in SP3.
|>
|> That's right-- DST is plus one hour. When DST is over, your clock
|> will go back an hour. Very good! But verify your dates are correct
|> (as Blanton pointed out currently there is overlap with the old
|> dates-- BOTH are in DST now!) using TZEdit.
|>
|> Run TZEdit, Chauvin, if it will work in XP...
|> http://www.softshape.com/cham/manual/tzedit.htm
|> TZEdit.
|>
|> Set it to comply with the following, if it isn't already so...
|> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=68
|> Current local time in Concord
|> .....Quote...................
|> UTC/GMT Offset
|> Standard time zone: UTC/GMT -5 hours
|> Daylight saving time: +1 hour
|> Current time zone offset: UTC/GMT -4 hours
|> Time zone abbreviation: EDT - Eastern Daylight Time
|>
|> Daylight Saving Time
|> DST started on Sunday, March 9, 2008 at 2:00 AM local standard time
|> DST ends on Sunday, November 2, 2008 at 2:00 AM local daylight time
|> .....EOQ.....................
|>
|> Set it to start on the SECOND Sunday of March & end on the FIRST
|> Sunday in November. (The precise day won't matter-- TZEdit goes by
|> 1st & 2nd.)
|>
|> That's the same for everyone, though, who is in DST-- not just New
|> Hamshire. Maybe they've stopped the foolishness of doing it weeks
|> earlier since the big change back in '07.
|
| Thanks PCR for gathering that info, and I've downloaded
| TZEdit to do later when I have more time to play more than the moment.

You are welcome. I'm beginning to remember it shouldn't be necessary to
do it oneself, if one has XP. There was a patch in XP for those new time
zone dates that started in 2007, which Terhune converted to something
that would run in Win98. Terhune's thing fixes the dates for every
possible time zone at once. TZEdit does it on a per time zone basis.
IOW, to do them all with TZEdit (instead of just your own), you'd have
to switch to each of the million time zones one at a time & input the
new dates individually for each one. But it can't hurt to run TZEdit to
verify your particular dates, if it will run in XP. I think you're
probably fine now, but Blanton will know best, until Terhune climbs back
out his latest earthquake. Then, he'll know best.

| Actually now that I've downloaded it I see that I already have it on
| my drive in the W98SE partition under tools\reskit\config folder,
| which came from the Retail SE CD itself that I had copied over to
| c:\windows\options\cabs..
|
| Anyway, thanks again for looking up that info which I've saved it all
| in its folder.

You are welcome. Good luck with it.

| Rick
|
| PCR's new name handle is the Timeman :)

:-).

|>
|> --
|> Thanks or Good Luck,
|> There may be humor in this post, and,
|> Naturally, you will not sue,
|> Should things get worse after this,
|> PCR
|>

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR

[PCR]

FromTheRafters wrote:
| Thanks a lot guys - I used to think I knew what time it was,
| now I'm not so sure. :o\
|
| ...and I gotta be at work at 8:30 AM Eastern Daylight New Hampshire
| Savings Time (I think?). Keene, not Spofford but I don't think I cross
| any timezones on my commute. So when do I go to Eastern Daylight
| New Hampshire Wastings Time?

Wastings Time is always the same in all the zones I've been in! Don't
worry about that!

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR