Copy of Windows 98 Second Edition

[Normanny]

Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition. I need to
upgrade my old Windows 98 and be able to install a Netgear 108 mbps Wireless
PC Card. Appreciate any help!
--
normanny

[philo]

"Normanny" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition. I need
to
> upgrade my old Windows 98 and be able to install a Netgear 108 mbps
Wireless
> PC Card. Appreciate any help!


You can probably get a win98se disk on ebay


I assume the documentation that came with the card stated that Win98se or
above was required???

[98 Guy]

Normanny wrote:

> Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition.

Download and install a bit-torrent client. I've been using u-torrent
recently.

Then go to one of the bit-torrent directory sites and search for win-98
torrents.

Here's a few:

http://www.torrentreactor.net/search.php?words=windows+98&search=&cid=2&x=0&y=0

Let's try this one:

http://dl.torrentreactor.net/download.php?id=1305362&name=Windows+98+Second+Edition+Full+Bootable+CD+%2 B+CD+Key

Ok, after about 1 minute, there are 82 seeders. I'm connected to about
3-dozen of them, and I'm downloading it at the relatively slow rate of
30 to 35 k-bytes per second. The file is listed as 553 mb in size.
There are about 10 others that are also downloading it, and I'm feeding
some of them at about 5 kbps. At this rate, it's gonna take me 5 hours
20 minutes to download.

The torrent is a .UIF file, along with 2 text files (one of them is the
"serial", which I suspect is the product key). Ah yes, I've given that
a high-priority and I have that file now. It's a list of several dozen
product keys.

Not sure what to do with a .uif file. I'll search the net for that.

I'm also running peer-guardian, and it's blocked the ip 212.199.248.66
because it's identified that ip as belonging to "Golden Lines /
Anti-p2p". Perhaps that outfit monitors microsoft-related torrents -
but they won't see me.

[Dan]

Thanks Glen. I agree with your feedback. Normanny, full legal copies of
Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition run about $50-$75 on Ebay which is a
great price for such an awesome operating system and do yourself a favor and
go legal because not only are you breaking the law with bit-torrent you are
risking even destroying your hardware if the appropriate baddie is placed
within bit-torrent. Gary S. Terhune, mvp mentioned how software baddies can
even affect hardware and I think this could be done by sending commands to
the hardware and overworking it but this is just a guess on my part.
Hopefully, you will go the legal option and grr. now Comcast is setting
limits because of the whole bit-torrent crap and yes I read that it will go
into affect October 1, 2008. Thanks for the garbage, all you who get
so-called free junk that costs everyone in time, money and expertise and
those who are trying to be legitimate in the industry without even having
illegal songs on their machines despite all the temptations out there and I
am very thankful to Apple's Itunes for the 99 cents legal songs that you can
get despite the fact that Apple Itunes requires Quicktime and you must so
frequently update it because of the illegal tying of the software and
Microsoft did this in 1998 and was investigated by the United States
Department of Justice so I ask why has the US-DOJ not investigated Apple now
for the same practices or hopefully maybe the EU will take the matter into
their hands when our US gov't is not willing to do the right thing and take
action. Just my 2/3 cents for what little it is worth.

"glee" wrote:

> Still blatantly promoting software piracy, I see.
> BTW, you bit-torrent abusers are the reason Comcast will be putting caps on monthly
> downloads for all their clients, and soon Time-Warner will be restructuring their
> Internet service into more expensive tiers based on monthly download capacity.
>
> "98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
>
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
> http://dts-l.net/
> http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm
>
>

[98 Guy]

glee wrote:

> Still blatantly promoting software piracy, I see.

Why is it piracy when the manufacturer no longer sells the item in
question?

And don't give me "well you can buy it on e-bay" crap. There is no
garantee that anyone selling win-98 on e-bay is selling a version that
*can* be re-sold or used according to it's EULA, or that the person
selling it isin't still using the same product key that they're
purporting to sell.

If it's a book, a music or movie cd that is still available for retail
sale, then yup, there is such a thing a piracy.

If it's any of the above that is no longer in print or being stamped or
sold, then making copies of it and passing it around is not piracy.

[98 Guy]

> Normanny wrote:
>
> > Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition.
>
> Download and install a bit-torrent client. I've been using u-torrent
> recently.
>
> Then go to one of the bit-torrent directory sites and search for win-98
> torrents.

> Let's try this one:
>
>http://dl.torrentreactor.net/download.php?id=1305362&name=Windows+98+Second+Edition+Full+Bootable+CD+%2 B+CD+Key

Ok, download complete.

I downloaded a UIF converter from here:

http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/4009438/A_UIF_to_ISO_Converter.4009438.TPB.torrent

It's a very small (32 kb) command-line executable (uif2iso.exe). I sent
it to virustotal to be scanned, and it came back 100% negative.

I ran it and created a 655 mb iso file. I burned the file to a cd using
ECDC and I'm looking at it now.

By all appearances it's a win-98se cd. File dates are 4/23/99, 10:22
pm.

I'm not sure if it's a retail cd, or an oem cd, or some other version.
If there's a file on the cd (txt, dll, etc) that would identify the
exact MS part or product number, then let me know.

I performed a DOS-level comp command on the root directory and the
\win98 directory on the CD against an image of a win-98se CD I have on
my system and all files compared exactly (that's roughly 1/3 of the
contents of the CD).

So Normanny, go and do what I just did. You'll have a win-98se cd in
your hands (and a few dozen product keys) in about 5 or 6 hours.

[Don Phillipson[_5_]]

"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...

> If it's a book, a music or movie cd that is still available for retail
> sale, then yup, there is such a thing a piracy.
>
> If it's any of the above that is no longer in print or being stamped or
> sold, then making copies of it and passing it around is not piracy.

This is an error in law (for which there was little excuse since
some US publishers began to print on the verso of title pages a
legal summary forbidding "mechanical reproduction.") Copyright
is not affected by whether a work is currently in print or on sale
or not. We are free to copy non-mechanically as much as we
like, but not to sell copies, and we are not free to photocopy
copyrighted works unless the copyright owner agrees.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[98 Guy]

Don Phillipson wrote:

> > If it's a book, a music or movie cd (or software) that is still
> > available for retail sale, then yup, there is such a thing a
> > piracy.
> >
> > If it's any of the above that is no longer in print or being
> > stamped or sold, then making copies of it and passing it around
> > is not piracy.

> This is an error in law

Does copyright law actually include the term "pirate" or "piracy" ?

Anyways, someone once said the law is an ass.

> some US publishers began to print on the verso of title pages a
> legal summary forbidding "mechanical reproduction.")

The intent being to prevent others from profiting from the sale of
copied works while the copyright owner is trying to do the same. It
probably wasn't the case, decades ago, that copies were produced soley
to be given away for free.

It's one thing to copy a work and then try to sell it. It's quite
another to copy a work no longer in print (or production) and where no
money changes hands.

> Copyright is not affected by whether a work is currently in
> print or on sale or not.

I don't disagree that Microsoft is the legal copyright holder of the
work in question, and that they can sell the copyright to a third party,
or they can resume production and sale of the work, or they can do as
they are now - to have abandoned the work.

I'm just saying that there is no logical or moral argument against the
replication or use of a copyrighted work between individuals when the
work has been commercially abandoned by the copyright holder or owner of
the work.

I'm also saying that only the owner or holder the copyrighted work has
the right to financial gain and charge money for the work even if they
have commercially abandonded the work.

I see it a lot like a patent.

I am free to replicate the ideas contained in a patent for my own
personal use, or perhaps for others so long as there is no direct
financial gain for me. Only the patent holder can experience financial
gain from the ideas contained in the patent (until the patent has
expired).

[MEB[_2_]]

"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
| glee wrote:
|
| > Still blatantly promoting software piracy, I see.
|
| Why is it piracy when the manufacturer no longer sells the item in
| question?
|
| And don't give me "well you can buy it on e-bay" crap. There is no
| garantee that anyone selling win-98 on e-bay is selling a version that
| *can* be re-sold or used according to it's EULA, or that the person
| selling it isin't still using the same product key that they're
| purporting to sell.
|
| If it's a book, a music or movie cd that is still available for retail
| sale, then yup, there is such a thing a piracy.
|
| If it's any of the above that is no longer in print or being stamped or
| sold, then making copies of it and passing it around is not piracy.

We [you and I, and others] have had prior discussions regarding this
unlawful activity before in this group when you have attempted to foster
this idea before, I see you have once again consciously determined to
further this piracy/criminal activity in this group once again. This would
appear to indicate that:

1. You are suffering from some metal disorder under which the realities of
the world are beyond your comprehension due to some physical or other mental
limitation/disability.

2. That you are under the influence of some drug or drugs which severely
impairs your ability to comprehend worldly affairs, legal rights of others,
and legal ramifications.

3. That you intend to further and foster this criminal activity in hopes
that the more parties engaging in this activity, the harder it becomes to
prosecute the individuals so in engaged.

4. That you have NO respect for Law, illegalities of the activities,
personal property rights, copyright, and other as relate. Which would
indicate that you also have ZERO respect for anyone on this planet except
for yourself.

5. That ALL of the above applies, and that you also have ZERO concern for
the fact that it is because of this, that others of the people are subjected
to increasingly restrictive Laws, Rules, Codes, and other which in essence
tends to remove their rights, invades their privacy, removes their
protections, and causes other legal ramifications and further restrictions
placed against them.

You, personally, were previously directed to review the Laws, legal
agreements, EULAs, and other applicable statutes, Treaties, and other which
define this activity you suggest as criminal, throughout the world..

Other discussions have been held in the numerous legal groups [to which you
were also directed] and other which might contain these types of
suggestions. Regardless, the activities you suggest ARE illegal and criminal
in nature. Nothing will change the stature of your suggestion to legal or
remotely acceptable behavior.

misc.legal.moderated

Legalities regarding DJ Performances
Copyright Infringement or Scam?
Legal to Import Books from India to Canada?
Legalities regarding Digital Rights Management and "Fair Use" :)
Does an internet browser infringe on copyright when displaying images?
Theoretical question - reselling ketchup?
Violating copyrights unknowlingly?
Does the programmer owns part of code copyrights when employed by company X?
School Integridy v. outside freedom of speech?
free open source modules from CPAN in non-free program
Sharing a Burnt Audio CD
Problems with getting Black's Law Dictionary 1st and 2nd Editions into
Public Domain
Slander?
a question of copyright laws [related to replaying DVDs on PalTalk]
a question regarding copyright laws
Bankruptcy and Software Licenses
Copyright Law regarding Museum Photos
Perjury in Federal Court- crime without punishment?
Copyright status of usenet posts
Plain and umambiguous language of statute
Can I Copyright Notecards / Business Cards?
hi, patent help here
Patent Worth Anything?
What is Legal Responsibility for Bank That Loses Business Checks?
Fair use of a characters name vs entirely different product?
Again: Copyright ownership and "work-for-hire"
Image copyrights and google groups
when is music copyright effective ? Can I post to myspace ?
treaty law
SpongeBob makes his legal debut
Right of Publicity laws and the Public Domain
Copyright Question
music and music video hosting

This group:

Unable to key product key off my Certificate of Authenticity.
Download a full version of WIndwos 98 SE for free
re-installing 98
AT&T rewrites rules: Your data isn't yours


Court:

MICROSOFT CORP. v. AT&T CORP. (No. 05-1056)
MEDIMMUNE, INC. v. GENENTECH, INC. (No. 05-608)
Bell Atlantic Corp. v. Twombly (05-1126)
SANCHEZ-LLAMAS v. OREGON (Nos. 04-10566 and 05-51)
DIXON v. UNITED STATES (No. 05-7053)
Ebay, Inc. v. MERCEXCHANGE, L. L. C. (No. 05-130)
Brigham City v Stuart (05-502)
SINOCHEM INT'L CO. v. MALAYSIA INT'L SHIPPINGCORP. (No. 06-102)
MAI Systems Corp. v. Peak Computer, Inc., 991 F.2d 511 (9th Cir. 1993)
Gershwin Publishing Corp. v. Columbia Artists Management, Inc., 443 F.2d
1159, 1162 (2d Cir. 1921)

CODE/STATUTE:

"Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act" Pub. L. 105-304,
title II, Oct. 28, 1998, 112 Stat. 2877

The Electronic Communication's Privacy Act
This "Watergate" {Nixon years] inspired statute affects the public in almost
every daily activity. Largely modified over the years, but particularly due
to the "Patriot Act" after 09-11-01.
CHAPTER 119 -- WIRE AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS INTERCEPTION AND
INTERCEPTION OF ORAL COMMUNICATIONS

CFR Index

See also:
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/ref/fedstat/copyright.htm
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/ref/uscode/house_links.htm


And the numerous other sites, forums, government, and court materials [U.S.
and international]. So put your junk somewhere else... here it is more than
merely inappropriate, you give the deliberate false impression that it is
not illegal or.criminal in stark contrast to the acual Laws and other which
control the matters.

--
MEB
a Peoples' Counsel
--
_________

[~BD~]

"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...

> May Jesus protect me from those that believe in Him.


He won't - of that you may be certain!

You are 'standing into danger' my friend.

BD

[98 Guy]

MEB wrote:

> I see you have once again consciously determined to further this
> piracy/criminal activity in this group once again. This would
> appear to indicate that: ...

Copyright and copyright law exist to protect creative works, arguably to
protect the financial opportunity afforded by those works and convey
that benefit to the authors or the rights-holders.

In the case of Microsoft (the rights-holder) and the work (Windows 98),
please explain what financial interest the rights holder has to the
work, given that the rights-holder hasn't offered the work for
commercial sale for several years and by all accounts will never offer
it ever again.

How is Microsoft harmed, financially or otherwise, today, by those that
obtain and use Windows-98 by any means?

What exactly is copyright law protecting, or conveying what benefit to
Microsoft, with regard to the casual circulation and use of Windows 98?

And who is violating copyright law? Those that obtain and use a
Windows-98 CD and/or product key, or those that provide those items to
others?

[98 Guy]

~BD~ wrote:

> > May Jesus protect me from those that believe in Him.
>
> He won't - of that you may be certain!

Oh don't worry. I'm quite certain of the limitations of a fictional
character.

> You are 'standing into danger' my friend.

That's an odd phrase - "standing into danger".

[Gary S. Terhune[_2_]]

The entity named "thanatoid" is near death and has decided that this
absolves it of any responsibilities.

Of course, "thanatoid" is an incredibly ignorant SOB, too.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"glee" > wrote in message
...
> Still blatantly promoting software piracy, I see.
> BTW, you bit-torrent abusers are the reason Comcast will be putting caps
> on monthly downloads for all their clients, and soon Time-Warner will be
> restructuring their Internet service into more expensive tiers based on
> monthly download capacity.
>
> "98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
>
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
> http://dts-l.net/
> http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm
>

[Angel]

Hi ,

When I see a post like this, asking for a copy of a product that is
copyrighted, I wonder what goes through the mind of that individual and the
one the is trying to help him get a "free" copy. I believe that those
individuals have never heard of, or practiced integrity and/or morals. Maybe
they do not know right from wrong. Maybe they just don't care who they
cheat. One day, they will learn what goes down the devil's back comes up his
front. In other words, what goes around comes around. He may get a copy, but
he may get an infected copy.

Angel

"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
: > Normanny wrote:
: >
: > > Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition.
: >
: > Download and install a bit-torrent client. I've been using u-torrent
: > recently.
: >
: > Then go to one of the bit-torrent directory sites and search for win-98
: > torrents.
:
: > Let's try this one:
: >
:
>http://dl.torrentreactor.net/download.php?id=1305362&name=Windows+98+Second
+Edition+Full+Bootable+CD+%2B+CD+Key
:
: Ok, download complete.
:
: I downloaded a UIF converter from here:
:
:
http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/4009438/A_UIF_to_ISO_Converter.4009438.TPB.torrent
:
: It's a very small (32 kb) command-line executable (uif2iso.exe). I sent
: it to virustotal to be scanned, and it came back 100% negative.
:
: I ran it and created a 655 mb iso file. I burned the file to a cd using
: ECDC and I'm looking at it now.
:
: By all appearances it's a win-98se cd. File dates are 4/23/99, 10:22
: pm.
:
: I'm not sure if it's a retail cd, or an oem cd, or some other version.
: If there's a file on the cd (txt, dll, etc) that would identify the
: exact MS part or product number, then let me know.
:
: I performed a DOS-level comp command on the root directory and the
: \win98 directory on the CD against an image of a win-98se CD I have on
: my system and all files compared exactly (that's roughly 1/3 of the
: contents of the CD).
:
: So Normanny, go and do what I just did. You'll have a win-98se cd in
: your hands (and a few dozen product keys) in about 5 or 6 hours.

[98 Guy]

Angel wrote:

> When I see a post like this, asking for a copy of a product that
> is copyrighted, I wonder what goes through the mind of that
> individual and the one the is trying to help him get a "free" copy.

Maybe you should ask yourself why the manufacturer of the product no
longer sells the product.

Then ask youself what harm is coming to the manufacturer because of the
obtainment of the "free" product.

> I believe that those individuals have never heard of, or practiced
> integrity and/or morals.

What high horse did you fall off of?

Why can't you get it through your thick skull that Microsoft suffered no
harm, because it no longer sells Windows 98.

> Maybe they just don't care who they cheat.

Please explain how Microsoft was "cheated" in this event.

> He may get a copy, but he may get an infected copy.

After checking 1/3 of the contents, I'm satisfied that it was a clean
copy.

[MEB[_2_]]

The same ol'crap again... gees I made a web containing your last ramblings
attempting to further criminal acts across the world..

READ THE COPYRIGHT LAWS and other applicable for once {I asked before, you
can read can't you?}. When you have something of value that backs your
claims rather than stupid questions, and ideas based upon thin air, bring it
back up. Until then, your just another mindless, ignorant party engaged in
criminal activities attempting to bring others into your criminal
conspiracy, unduly affecting everyone else on this planet by furthering and
participating in such activity..

BTW: you were supposed to read those cases, laws, and the rest, so you COULD
have a viable debate... they answer all your questions AND debunk your
presentations. Of course that ends all discussion, but I'm sure you will
never read OR understand, so what's the point... you will continue to engage
in criminal activities until some one catches you, then likely turn State's
evidence by turning in your friends and associates while attempting to get a
plea bargain...

--
MEB
a Peoples' counsel
--
_________



"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
| MEB wrote:
|
| > I see you have once again consciously determined to further this
| > piracy/criminal activity in this group once again. This would
| > appear to indicate that: ...
|
| Copyright and copyright law exist to protect creative works, arguably to
| protect the financial opportunity afforded by those works and convey
| that benefit to the authors or the rights-holders.
|
| In the case of Microsoft (the rights-holder) and the work (Windows 98),
| please explain what financial interest the rights holder has to the
| work, given that the rights-holder hasn't offered the work for
| commercial sale for several years and by all accounts will never offer
| it ever again.
|
| How is Microsoft harmed, financially or otherwise, today, by those that
| obtain and use Windows-98 by any means?
|
| What exactly is copyright law protecting, or conveying what benefit to
| Microsoft, with regard to the casual circulation and use of Windows 98?
|
| And who is violating copyright law? Those that obtain and use a
| Windows-98 CD and/or product key, or those that provide those items to
| others?

[98 Guy]

MEB wrote:

> READ THE COPYRIGHT LAWS and other applicable for once

Why can't you get it through your thick skull that I am questioning the
basis or logic behind some aspects of the copyright laws.

I am not disputing that the laws, as written, does give microsoft the
right to take copyright violators to court, and that this probably
extends to file, CD, and product-key sharing and the use of their
products that results from this sharing, regardless that it's for a
product they no longer sell.

You (and others) obviously are incapable of having a philosophical
discussion about why the benefit of copyright laws should extend to
works that are no longer and will never again be produced by the
rights-holder.

I nonetheless invite you (or anyone else) to answer these previously
proposed questions:

| What exactly is copyright law protecting, or conveying what benefit
| to Microsoft, with regard to the casual circulation and use of
| Windows 98?

| And who is violating copyright law? Those that obtain and use a
| Windows-98 CD and/or product key, or those that provide those items
| to others?

[Dan]

I feel MEB has a valid concern that breaking laws in regards to software by
illegally copying it leads to more restrictions. I heard about the case at a
GameStop where someone sued Gamestop for selling them a used copy as new and
the only reason it wasn't new was someone returned the game because the
person did not like it. The lady lost the case but Gamestop changed their
policy of a 7 day return policy to a zero day return policy on new game
software unless the software is unopened and all the woman had to do was be
willing to just exchange the copy she was not satisfied with another game
copy. (Note: The stupidity of people is beyond even me sometimes)

"98 Guy" wrote:

> MEB wrote:
>
> > READ THE COPYRIGHT LAWS and other applicable for once
>
> Why can't you get it through your thick skull that I am questioning the
> basis or logic behind some aspects of the copyright laws.
>
> I am not disputing that the laws, as written, does give microsoft the
> right to take copyright violators to court, and that this probably
> extends to file, CD, and product-key sharing and the use of their
> products that results from this sharing, regardless that it's for a
> product they no longer sell.
>
> You (and others) obviously are incapable of having a philosophical
> discussion about why the benefit of copyright laws should extend to
> works that are no longer and will never again be produced by the
> rights-holder.
>
> I nonetheless invite you (or anyone else) to answer these previously
> proposed questions:
>
> | What exactly is copyright law protecting, or conveying what benefit
> | to Microsoft, with regard to the casual circulation and use of
> | Windows 98?
>
> | And who is violating copyright law? Those that obtain and use a
> | Windows-98 CD and/or product key, or those that provide those items
> | to others?
>

[Dan]

98 Guy, please leave Angel alone. Microsoft was is indeed a copy and for
economic reasons Microsoft decided to abandon the 9x source code. To this
day, I still firmly think this was a huge mistake because now hackers can
concentrate on one line of business source code and it has made consumers
activities lots more dangerous because there is not the distinction between
consumer and cooperate customer anymore. Hopefully, Microsoft will
eventually develop a new source code that is really good and has the best
elements of the 9x source code, the NT source code and perhaps using open
source unix/linunx technologies to make a really good product but until that
day we all do what we can and I cannot promote piracy even if the product has
been abandoned and you are just willing to check 1/3 of the product -- what
happens if the baddie is buried deep within the other 2/3rds in a hidden
directory?

"98 Guy" wrote:

> Angel wrote:
>
> > When I see a post like this, asking for a copy of a product that
> > is copyrighted, I wonder what goes through the mind of that
> > individual and the one the is trying to help him get a "free" copy.
>
> Maybe you should ask yourself why the manufacturer of the product no
> longer sells the product.
>
> Then ask youself what harm is coming to the manufacturer because of the
> obtainment of the "free" product.
>
> > I believe that those individuals have never heard of, or practiced
> > integrity and/or morals.
>
> What high horse did you fall off of?
>
> Why can't you get it through your thick skull that Microsoft suffered no
> harm, because it no longer sells Windows 98.
>
> > Maybe they just don't care who they cheat.
>
> Please explain how Microsoft was "cheated" in this event.
>
> > He may get a copy, but he may get an infected copy.
>
> After checking 1/3 of the contents, I'm satisfied that it was a clean
> copy.
>

[MEB[_2_]]

This is the same garbage you attempted to extend the last time.. same
suggestions, different addressing points...

Rather than ask these baseless questions which raise no new material, why
not research the aspect of your issue with Microsoft and 9X to the extent of
presenting it to a court as a question for the court to answer??? Perhaps
with the abandonware, lack of use, and other you seem to believe separates
this issue from all the others of which and in which the courts HAVE
answered those questions.

This would achieve your supposed goal and answer ALL of your childlike
questions. Post your name and address and phone number with the illegal
commercial 9X software you "personally" offer free. Get yourself arrested
and then you will have your forum to expound from, your day in court...

My bet is that you will not do this because you are basically and
apparently gutless, moreover, without the knowledge or experience necessary
to support your claims. IN FACT, I AM quite sure you know there is no basis
for your presentation or your ideas regarding this path which you purport to
follow and continue to direct others to engage in.

So there it is, your soap box, your way to change the world: PUT UP OR SHUT
UP

--
MEB
a Peoples' counsel
--
_________



"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
| MEB wrote:
|
| > READ THE COPYRIGHT LAWS and other applicable for once
|
| Why can't you get it through your thick skull that I am questioning the
| basis or logic behind some aspects of the copyright laws.
|
| I am not disputing that the laws, as written, does give microsoft the
| right to take copyright violators to court, and that this probably
| extends to file, CD, and product-key sharing and the use of their
| products that results from this sharing, regardless that it's for a
| product they no longer sell.
|
| You (and others) obviously are incapable of having a philosophical
| discussion about why the benefit of copyright laws should extend to
| works that are no longer and will never again be produced by the
| rights-holder.
|
| I nonetheless invite you (or anyone else) to answer these previously
| proposed questions:
|
| | What exactly is copyright law protecting, or conveying what benefit
| | to Microsoft, with regard to the casual circulation and use of
| | Windows 98?
|
| | And who is violating copyright law? Those that obtain and use a
| | Windows-98 CD and/or product key, or those that provide those items
| | to others?

[Don Phillipson[_5_]]

"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...

> Anyways, someone once said the law is an ass.
> . . .
> I see it a lot like a patent.
>
> I am free to replicate the ideas contained in a patent for my own
> personal use, or perhaps for others so long as there is no direct
> financial gain for me. Only the patent holder can experience financial
> gain from the ideas contained in the patent (until the patent has
> expired).

You seem to be wrong about this point of law as well, cf. the recent
patenting (in the USA) of certain genes. This means they may
not be used at all without the permission of the patent holder.
Personal use or non-profit environments do not mitigate
the offence of illegal use of a patent.

elsewhere
> MEB wrote:
> > READ THE COPYRIGHT LAWS and other applicable for once

98 Guy wrote:
> Why can't you get it through your thick skull that I am questioning the
> basis or logic behind some aspects of the copyright laws.
>
> I am not disputing that the laws, as written . . .

Readers see your posts on two topics:
1. What current law says
2. The reasons or purposes underlying current law.

We cannot expect good discussion of #2 if first we get #1 wrong, for
example:
(a) " no longer in print or being stamped or sold, then
making copies of it and passing it around is not piracy."
(b) "I am free to replicate the ideas contained in a patent for my own
personal use, or perhaps for others so long as there is no direct
financial gain for me."

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Angel]

Thanks Dan,

You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask. He
checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he is in for a
great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and no matter what. In his
own opinion, he is never wrong no matter what! He is just a Troll! looking
for someone to pick on.

Angel

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
: 98 Guy, please leave Angel alone. Microsoft was is indeed a copy and for
: economic reasons Microsoft decided to abandon the 9x source code. To this
: day, I still firmly think this was a huge mistake because now hackers can
: concentrate on one line of business source code and it has made consumers
: activities lots more dangerous because there is not the distinction
between
: consumer and cooperate customer anymore. Hopefully, Microsoft will
: eventually develop a new source code that is really good and has the best
: elements of the 9x source code, the NT source code and perhaps using open
: source unix/linunx technologies to make a really good product but until
that
: day we all do what we can and I cannot promote piracy even if the product
has
: been abandoned and you are just willing to check 1/3 of the product --
what
: happens if the baddie is buried deep within the other 2/3rds in a hidden
: directory?
:
: "98 Guy" wrote:
:
: > Angel wrote:
: >
: > > When I see a post like this, asking for a copy of a product that
: > > is copyrighted, I wonder what goes through the mind of that
: > > individual and the one the is trying to help him get a "free" copy.
: >
: > Maybe you should ask yourself why the manufacturer of the product no
: > longer sells the product.
: >
: > Then ask youself what harm is coming to the manufacturer because of the
: > obtainment of the "free" product.
: >
: > > I believe that those individuals have never heard of, or practiced
: > > integrity and/or morals.
: >
: > What high horse did you fall off of?
: >
: > Why can't you get it through your thick skull that Microsoft suffered no
: > harm, because it no longer sells Windows 98.
: >
: > > Maybe they just don't care who they cheat.
: >
: > Please explain how Microsoft was "cheated" in this event.
: >
: > > He may get a copy, but he may get an infected copy.
: >
: > After checking 1/3 of the contents, I'm satisfied that it was a clean
: > copy.
: >

[Buffalo]

Don Phillipson wrote:
> (a) " no longer in print or being stamped or sold, then
> making copies of it and passing it around is not piracy."
> (b) "I am free to replicate the ideas contained in a patent for my
> own personal use, or perhaps for others so long as there is no direct
> financial gain for me."
[snip]

It's a point of black and white for you and many others, but I really
believe that anyone can copy and give freely (without charge) a copy of
Win98SE to anyone they want to (not including the product key).
Your points are legal only, not common sense.
Total BS!

[Buffalo]

Angel wrote:
> Thanks Dan,
>
> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask. He
> checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he is in
> for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and no matter
> what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter what! He is
> just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
>
> Angel

And who might you just be??
An expert of some kind?

[glee]

"Buffalo" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Don Phillipson wrote:
>> (a) " no longer in print or being stamped or sold, then
>> making copies of it and passing it around is not piracy."
>> (b) "I am free to replicate the ideas contained in a patent for my
>> own personal use, or perhaps for others so long as there is no direct
>> financial gain for me."
> [snip]
>
> It's a point of black and white for you and many others, but I really
> believe that anyone can copy and give freely (without charge) a copy of
> Win98SE to anyone they want to (not including the product key).
> Your points are legal only, not common sense.
> Total BS!

Not total BS, in that the sore point here is that not only is an image of the disc
being downloaded, but it includes multiple product keys with it.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

[Bill in Co.]

Buffalo wrote:
> Angel wrote:
>> Thanks Dan,
>>
>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask. He
>> checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he is in
>> for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and no matter
>> what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter what! He is
>> just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
>>
>> Angel
>
> And who might you just be??

She is Angel.

[ailema]

i got a software online for free but after two days its error huhuh

[Buffalo]

Bill in Co. wrote:
> Buffalo wrote:
>> Angel wrote:
>>> Thanks Dan,
>>>
>>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask.
>>> He checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he
>>> is in for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and
>>> no matter what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter
>>> what! He is just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
>>>
>>> Angel
>>
>> And who might you just be??
>
> She is Angel.

Well, Duh? :) I think he (98 Guy) knows a hell of a lot more about Win98
and computers than Angel.

[Dan]

You are most welcome. I am glad we are on the same thought process here,
Angel.

"Angel" wrote:

> Thanks Dan,
>
> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask. He
> checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he is in for a
> great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and no matter what. In his
> own opinion, he is never wrong no matter what! He is just a Troll! looking
> for someone to pick on.
>
> Angel
>
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
> : 98 Guy, please leave Angel alone. Microsoft was is indeed a copy and for
> : economic reasons Microsoft decided to abandon the 9x source code. To this
> : day, I still firmly think this was a huge mistake because now hackers can
> : concentrate on one line of business source code and it has made consumers
> : activities lots more dangerous because there is not the distinction
> between
> : consumer and cooperate customer anymore. Hopefully, Microsoft will
> : eventually develop a new source code that is really good and has the best
> : elements of the 9x source code, the NT source code and perhaps using open
> : source unix/linunx technologies to make a really good product but until
> that
> : day we all do what we can and I cannot promote piracy even if the product
> has
> : been abandoned and you are just willing to check 1/3 of the product --
> what
> : happens if the baddie is buried deep within the other 2/3rds in a hidden
> : directory?
> :
> : "98 Guy" wrote:
> :
> : > Angel wrote:
> : >
> : > > When I see a post like this, asking for a copy of a product that
> : > > is copyrighted, I wonder what goes through the mind of that
> : > > individual and the one the is trying to help him get a "free" copy.
> : >
> : > Maybe you should ask yourself why the manufacturer of the product no
> : > longer sells the product.
> : >
> : > Then ask youself what harm is coming to the manufacturer because of the
> : > obtainment of the "free" product.
> : >
> : > > I believe that those individuals have never heard of, or practiced
> : > > integrity and/or morals.
> : >
> : > What high horse did you fall off of?
> : >
> : > Why can't you get it through your thick skull that Microsoft suffered no
> : > harm, because it no longer sells Windows 98.
> : >
> : > > Maybe they just don't care who they cheat.
> : >
> : > Please explain how Microsoft was "cheated" in this event.
> : >
> : > > He may get a copy, but he may get an infected copy.
> : >
> : > After checking 1/3 of the contents, I'm satisfied that it was a clean
> : > copy.
> : >
>
>
>

[Dan]

LOL, good one, Bill in Co.

"Bill in Co." wrote:

> Buffalo wrote:
> > Angel wrote:
> >> Thanks Dan,
> >>
> >> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask. He
> >> checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he is in
> >> for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and no matter
> >> what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter what! He is
> >> just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
> >>
> >> Angel
> >
> > And who might you just be??
>
> She is Angel.
>
>
>

[Dan]

98 Guy may know a lot more about computers but respect plays a great part in
this newsgroup, imo.

"Buffalo" wrote:

>
>
> Bill in Co. wrote:
> > Buffalo wrote:
> >> Angel wrote:
> >>> Thanks Dan,
> >>>
> >>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask.
> >>> He checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he
> >>> is in for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and
> >>> no matter what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter
> >>> what! He is just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
> >>>
> >>> Angel
> >>
> >> And who might you just be??
> >
> > She is Angel.
>
> Well, Duh? :) I think he (98 Guy) knows a hell of a lot more about Win98
> and computers than Angel.
>
>
>

[98 Guy]

MEB wrote:

> This is the same garbage you attempted to extend the last time..

Why does a work that is no longer and WILL NEVER AGAIN be manufactured
or sold deserve copyright protection?

How is the holder of such a work harmed by the non-profit,
non-commercial replication and use of that work?

And don't blow off those questions by telling me to do research.

If you don't know the answer to those questions, or if you don't have an
opinion yourself, then don't bother to respond.

[98 Guy]

Don Phillipson wrote:

> > I am free to replicate the ideas contained in a patent for my own
> > personal use,

> You seem to be wrong about this point of law as well,

There are exemptions for research or to ascertain the performance or
practicality of a patent. Personal use would or could be part of those
exemptions.

> Readers see your posts on two topics:
> 1. What current law says
> 2. The reasons or purposes underlying current law.
>
> We cannot expect good discussion of #2 if first we get #1 wrong,

It's my opinion that a work that is no longer and will never again be
manufactured or sold should not enjoy copyright protection.

It's my opinion that "piracy" is a term used to describe the replication
or distribution of a work that is providing a revenue stream for the
work's rightful owner. If the work is no longer offered for commercial
sale, then it has no value to the owner and hence can't be pirated. In
this case, replication does not equal piracy.

[James Hahn]

This is the silliest argument I have seen in a long time.

"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
>
> Why does a work that is no longer and WILL NEVER AGAIN be manufactured
> or sold deserve copyright protection?
>
> How is the holder of such a work harmed by the non-profit,
> non-commercial replication and use of that work?
>
> And don't blow off those questions by telling me to do research.
>

Firstly, why don't you do the research that has been suggested and look
through the development of copyright law in some example jurisdictions
around the world. When you find a single jurisdiction that ties the
enforcement of copyright to some potential or actual ability of the
rights-holder to profit from the creative work, come and show it to us as an
example of how you believe copyright law should be written.

You have confused the reasons for copyright protection with the patent laws,
which do have some connections to commercial realities for a patentable
item. The two forms of protection exist for entirely different reasons.

Do you surf the www? Have you noticed that a lot of the material on the www
is subject to copyright? How much of that material is generating revenue
for the rights-holder? I would guess that only a tiny fraction of
copyrighted www sites actually make money. So how do you think those
rights-holders would react if told that their attempt to prevent others from
using their creative works depends on whether or not they can make a dollar
out of them? Not only do I believe I can predict their reaction, but I
would be confident their complaints would mirror very closely the arguments
on which the current copyright law has been developed over the years.

Secondly, you have chosen to discusss the issue in terms of copyright
because you have a particular viewpoint on that topic that happens to suit
your purpose. It suits you to pretend that you are only breaking a law that
you believe is not supportable. In fact, the law being broken here, which
was also pointed out very early on, is incitement to theft. The supplier
does not own the product, and making copies, or allowing copies to be made,
is theft. Yes, it's intellectual property rather than a physical item, but
most jurisdictions around the world no longer make any distincion between IP
and real goods.

Try arguing your point of view in terms of the law that's being broken
here, not in terms of some theoretical concept of what the copyright law
ought to be in order to justify your actions.

[~BD~]

"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
> ~BD~ wrote:
>
>> > May Jesus protect me from those that believe in Him.
>>
>> He won't - of that you may be certain!
>
> Oh don't worry. I'm quite certain of the limitations of a fictional
> character.
>
>> You are 'standing into danger' my friend.
>
> That's an odd phrase - "standing into danger".
>

Not odd at all ............. especially if one has a nautical bent! ;)

BD

--

[MEB[_2_]]

To add to the above:

The determinative action is the right to *distribute* or not,,, Microsoft
holds that right, you and others hold no such authority...

As indicated, it is a theft of not only intellectual property, patented
code [some of it anyway], and other, but the more importantly, the
distribution right.
The Law has already stated WHEN you would have right to distribute; upon
expiration; doing so before such expiration IS a criminal act.

The whole ridiculous argument you raise is that because Microsoft has
purportedly chosen NOT to distribute 98 then you SHOULD have that right...
yeah sure, so if the car dealer refuses to sell that *classic* car, you
should be able to steal it and sell or give it away... go ahead try any of
what you suggest, but make sure you put your name, address, and phone number
on it so you can get the credit...98 was a commercial item previously For
Sale, which the seller has now determined is no longer offered.

Since NO ONE other than Microsoft has ever actually OWNED the software, you
have absolutely no authority.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________



"James Hahn" > wrote in message
...
| This is the silliest argument I have seen in a long time.
|
| "98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
| >
| > Why does a work that is no longer and WILL NEVER AGAIN be manufactured
| > or sold deserve copyright protection?
| >
| > How is the holder of such a work harmed by the non-profit,
| > non-commercial replication and use of that work?
| >
| > And don't blow off those questions by telling me to do research.
| >
|
| Firstly, why don't you do the research that has been suggested and look
| through the development of copyright law in some example jurisdictions
| around the world. When you find a single jurisdiction that ties the
| enforcement of copyright to some potential or actual ability of the
| rights-holder to profit from the creative work, come and show it to us as
an
| example of how you believe copyright law should be written.
|
| You have confused the reasons for copyright protection with the patent
laws,
| which do have some connections to commercial realities for a patentable
| item. The two forms of protection exist for entirely different reasons.
|
| Do you surf the www? Have you noticed that a lot of the material on the
www
| is subject to copyright? How much of that material is generating revenue
| for the rights-holder? I would guess that only a tiny fraction of
| copyrighted www sites actually make money. So how do you think those
| rights-holders would react if told that their attempt to prevent others
from
| using their creative works depends on whether or not they can make a
dollar
| out of them? Not only do I believe I can predict their reaction, but I
| would be confident their complaints would mirror very closely the
arguments
| on which the current copyright law has been developed over the years.
|
| Secondly, you have chosen to discusss the issue in terms of copyright
| because you have a particular viewpoint on that topic that happens to suit
| your purpose. It suits you to pretend that you are only breaking a law
that
| you believe is not supportable. In fact, the law being broken here, which
| was also pointed out very early on, is incitement to theft. The supplier
| does not own the product, and making copies, or allowing copies to be
made,
| is theft. Yes, it's intellectual property rather than a physical item,
but
| most jurisdictions around the world no longer make any distincion between
IP
| and real goods.
|
| Try arguing your point of view in terms of the law that's being broken
| here, not in terms of some theoretical concept of what the copyright law
| ought to be in order to justify your actions.
|

[glee]

Inline....
"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
> Don Phillipson wrote:
>
>> > I am free to replicate the ideas contained in a patent for my own
>> > personal use,
>
>> You seem to be wrong about this point of law as well,
>
> There are exemptions for research or to ascertain the performance or
> practicality of a patent. Personal use would or could be part of those
> exemptions.


You can make up anything you like, but "personal use" does not fit those
descriptions.


>> Readers see your posts on two topics:
>> 1. What current law says
>> 2. The reasons or purposes underlying current law.
>>
>> We cannot expect good discussion of #2 if first we get #1 wrong,
>
> It's my opinion that a work that is no longer and will never again be
> manufactured or sold should not enjoy copyright protection.
>
> It's my opinion that "piracy" is a term used to describe the replication
> or distribution of a work that is providing a revenue stream for the
> work's rightful owner. If the work is no longer offered for commercial
> sale, then it has no value to the owner and hence can't be pirated. In
> this case, replication does not equal piracy.

You don't get it, obviously. It has nothing to do with revenue stream as far as the
law goes. It is protection of intellectual property, regardless of whether there is
any revenue involved, or whether the OS is sold or still updated/supported in terms
of receiving new code from the maker.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

[pebble]

Well I reckon all's fair in love, war and internet use. B-)


pebble in Boulder

[Buffalo]

Angel wrote:
> Thanks Dan,
>
> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask. He
> checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he is in
> for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and no matter
> what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter what! He is
> just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
>
> Angel

Sorry about my last post about you Angel, I just had to yell at someone
yesterday.
My apologies.
Buffalo

[~BD~]

"Angel" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks Dan,
>
> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask. He
> checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he is in for a
> great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and no matter what. In
> his
> own opinion, he is never wrong no matter what! He is just a Troll! looking
> for someone to pick on.
>
> Angel
>
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
> : 98 Guy, please leave Angel alone.

<snip>

--

Hi Angel! :)

Is it possible that this is *your* web site?

http://www.i-techangel.com/

Even if it's not, Dan may enjoy it! (maybe you too!)

Dave

--

[Angel]

Buffalo,
Apology accepted.
Angel

"Buffalo" > wrote in message
. ..
:
:
: Angel wrote:
: > Thanks Dan,
: >
: > You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask. He
: > checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he is in
: > for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and no matter
: > what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter what! He is
: > just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
: >
: > Angel
:
: Sorry about my last post about you Angel, I just had to yell at someone
: yesterday.
: My apologies.
: Buffalo
:
:

[Don Phillipson[_5_]]

"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...

> Why does a work that is no longer and WILL NEVER AGAIN be manufactured
> or sold deserve copyright protection?

Desert has nothing to do with it. If your Aunt Flossie
writes poems they become by that act her intellectual
property. If she publishes a book that sells 12 copies
and is then remaindered and pulped, thus unobtainable,
the poems remain her property for either X years or her lifetime
plus Y years, depending on the country concerned. This means
no one else has the right to repriint them. Desert (yours or mine
or Aunt Flossie's) has nothing to do with this property right.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Angel]

Buffalo,

Maybe (98 Guy) knows more about computers, I am learning more about them
every day. He seems to know NOTHING about Scruples, Morals and Integrity, or
he just doesn't care about what the difference is between right and wrong.
This subject has nothing to do with computer knowledge. This concerns the
difference between right and wrong, scruples, morality and integrity,
nothing else.

Angel

"Buffalo" > wrote in message
. ..
:
:
: Bill in Co. wrote:
: > Buffalo wrote:
: >> Angel wrote:
: >>> Thanks Dan,
: >>>
: >>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask.
: >>> He checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he
: >>> is in for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and
: >>> no matter what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter
: >>> what! He is just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
: >>>
: >>> Angel
: >>
: >> And who might you just be??
: >
: > She is Angel.
:
: Well, Duh? :) I think he (98 Guy) knows a hell of a lot more about Win98
: and computers than Angel.
:
:

[Angel]

Dave,

No, it is not my website. No, I have not even tried to go to it. Don't think
I will go to it neither. I am too busy!!

Angel

"~BD~" > wrote in message
...
:
: "Angel" > wrote in message
: ...
: > Thanks Dan,
: >
: > You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask. He
: > checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he is in for
a
: > great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and no matter what. In
: > his
: > own opinion, he is never wrong no matter what! He is just a Troll!
looking
: > for someone to pick on.
: >
: > Angel
: >
: > "Dan" > wrote in message
: > ...
: > : 98 Guy, please leave Angel alone.
:
: <snip>
:
: --
:
: Hi Angel! :)
:
: Is it possible that this is *your* web site?
:
: http://www.i-techangel.com/
:
: Even if it's not, Dan may enjoy it! (maybe you too!)
:
: Dave
:
: --
:
:

[MEB[_2_]]

Let me clarify some of the main items which apply;
{NOTE: this is NOT a full listing] :

Right to distribute;
Ownership;
Patented code;
Trademark;
Copyright;
limited contract [like lease]

Every time someone unlawfully distributes the OS OR knowingly uses such
unlawful software, they commit and/or violate:
the above;
theft;
fraud;
defraud;
contractual violations.

Who has responsibility to prosecute?
Every prosecutor, solicitor, barrister, attorney general, and the like
across the world for defined criminal violations.

As I previously indicated to you and others in prior discussions, Microsoft
ENJOYS the full protections of ALL applicable Law in EVERY nation. That's
every: Treaty; code and/or statute [such as U.C.C]; commercial agreements
[public and private]; NAFTA; WTO; EUCA/EUTA; U.N. agreements, international
Laws, and Treaties; etc..

Need Microsoft complain? No, the Laws are specific in that it lay with the
legally defined responsible parties to protect it.
Microsoft CAN, however, take issue with ANY responsible party, anywhere,
who FAILS to protect it. Politics can apply, but the shear weight that
Microsoft brings to bear can effectuate compliance.

The "gray area" lay in the updates and modifications [such as the 2004
Security CD or other *updates*]. These REQUIRE a Microsoft OS to have the
valuable consideration of use; without the OS they are essentially valueless
[other than to Microsoft] because they can not be used without the OS. Take
all of the updates or modifications, put them together and you will not have
a working environment.
Therein lay the issue; if they have no use UNLESS there is a qualifying OS
lawfully held, distribution WITHOUT costs [commercial enrichment] seems to
qualify more as a public service IMO. Even here though there are other "gray
areas" such as modifications to those update files [Such as: does this
extend reverse engineering principles?]. There again though, without a
qualifying OS, they also are essentially useless [though not without value].
Another "gray area" lays within the disallowance that seems to imply within
the EULA concerning use of your lawfully held CDROM or files, and its use
upon another's lawfully held computer with a separately licensed OS [such as
for a repair], wherein the controlling terms and conditions seem to be
overly broad and unduly restrictive.

You asked for my opinion:

I have previously posted that in my opinion, Microsoft should release this
code to the public arena. Microsoft should also relieve the users of their
present contractual agreements. It is clear that the newer computers do not
[for the most part] support the coding limitations within the 9X
environment. The designed in limitations of the OSs [95, 98, 98SE, ME] also
would preclude the type of computing that many/most people now desire.
Manufacturers MIGHT begin producing legacy boards and devices, but the user
base is not all that great. Hence, the commercial value to Microsoft is
essentially non-existent.
The applicable patents [such as Fat32; e.g., specific to 9X/DOS] also seems
to be essentially valueless when taken with the newer HD sizes and other
hardware and chipsets. There are other aspects which would also appear to
indicate that the commercial/investor value is essential non-existent to
Microsoft, so public release would NOT seem to support a resurgence of
computers which CAN run the OS to Microsoft's detriment. In fact, that MIGHT
help with Microsoft's public relationship, which is not all that great
around the world.

I came to this discussion group *in this public form* prior to the "End of
Support"/End of Life for 9X [about a year or so before]. I was fully
prepared to brief on behalf of the affected People related to WHY there
should be continuation, OR that it should be released to the public for
further development/use. No one apparently had any major problems or voiced
much discontent, and, really, still don't. Of the potential millions still
using the 9X OSs, those voicing support for even the code release are
insufficient/insignificant.
I also personally take issue with the apparent fact that manufacturers have
removed support files, and/or as some suggest, removed support from files
which previously had such contained within them.
I also take personal issue with the fact that the programming environments
have apparently complete removed or intentionally disabled the ability to
program for the 9X code environment. There is no need and would not cause
undue issues if still included within those applications. As I have
previously indicated, the 9X code environment is "stable" [un-changing] so
there is no need to constantly modify anything within the application's
programming [the actual programming application]. Here its
mostly/apparently, merely a matter of cutting and pasting the coding
specific to 9X within the programming application when its updated. The code
already exists; there is no apparent reason not to include it [of course
that would still require the Libraries and other for the 9X code
environment]. We can see SOME manufacturer's still including 9X support, so
that's a rather obvious display of how easy it is to continue support, and
we also can find a small number still provide multiple cross platform
applications [9X through VISTA] so that also indicates that is easily
achievable..

HOWEVER:

Until Microsoft releases its holds on 9X code and the users, what you
intend and openly solicit is unlawful, illegal, and criminal in nature. That
you have openly admitted to such activities in a public forum appears to
indicate you are not a very intelligent person.

--
MEB
a Peoples' counsel
--
_________

[~BD~[_2_]]

Reply below.

"Angel" > wrote in message ...

> Dave,
>
> No, it is not my website. No, I have not even tried to go to it. Don't think
> I will go to it neither. I am too busy!!
>
> Angel
>
> "~BD~" > wrote in message
> ...
> :
> : "Angel" > wrote in message
> : ...
> : > Thanks Dan,
> : >
> : > You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask. He
> : > checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he is in for
> a
> : > great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and no matter what. In
> : > his
> : > own opinion, he is never wrong no matter what! He is just a Troll!
> looking
> : > for someone to pick on.
> : >
> : > Angel
> : >
> : > "Dan" > wrote in message
> : > ...
> : > : 98 Guy, please leave Angel alone.
> :
> : <snip>
> :
> : --
> :
> : Hi Angel! :)
> :
> : Is it possible that this is *your* web site?
> :
> : http://www.i-techangel.com/
> :
> : Even if it's not, Dan may enjoy it! (maybe you too!)
> :
> : Dave
> :
> : --



Well, thank you for taking the time to let me know, Angel. :)

Dave

--

[Bill in Co.]

Angel wrote:
> Buffalo,
>
> Maybe (98 Guy) knows more about computers, I am learning more about them
> every day. He seems to know NOTHING about Scruples, Morals and Integrity,
> or
> he just doesn't care about what the difference is between right and wrong.
> This subject has nothing to do with computer knowledge. This concerns the
> difference between right and wrong, scruples, morality and integrity,
> nothing else.
> Angel

"scruples, morality and integrity"??? Wrong era and wrong generation for
that! You old fogie, you!!!!


> "Buffalo" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>>
>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>> Buffalo wrote:
>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>> Thanks Dan,
>>>>>
>>>>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask.
>>>>> He checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he
>>>>> is in for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and
>>>>> no matter what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter
>>>>> what! He is just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Angel
>>>>
>>>> And who might you just be??
>>>
>>> She is Angel.
>>
>> Well, Duh? :) I think he (98 Guy) knows a hell of a lot more about
>> Win98
>> and computers than Angel.

[98 Guy]

James Hahn wrote:

> > Why does a work that is no longer and WILL NEVER AGAIN be
> > manufactured or sold deserve copyright protection?
> >
> > How is the holder of such a work harmed by the non-profit,
> > non-commercial replication and use of that work?
> >
> > And don't blow off those questions by telling me to do
> > research.

> Firstly, why don't you do the research

Why don't you provide a counter-argument.

Why should a work that *will never again* be manufactured or sold need
copyright protection?

Why should such a work deserve copyright protection?

If you know the reason, or you have a logical argument, then state it.

If *you* want to perform research to come up with a counter argument,
then do so. The onus is on you (or MEB) to provide a counter argument.

> When you find a single jurisdiction that ties the
> enforcement of copyright to some potential or
> actual ability of the rights-holder to profit
> from the creative work,

I never said that copyright benefits should take into account the
potential for gain, revenue or profit.

A more rational copyright law could be structured as:

a) a work that was never made public could / would be protected.

b) a work that has been made public, and continues to be, could / would
be protected.

c) A work that was once made public, but has ceased to be so for some
period of time, would lose some of it's protection.

By "made public", I mean any form of presentation to the public, be it
as an exhibition, broadcast, reproduction for sale or lease, etc.

In a way that is similar to the protection given by a patent. A patent
is a form of intellectual property that is disclosed in return for a
period of protection to allow the patent holder to profit from the
patent. It does not require the holder to do anything, and indeed the
holder may do nothing to seek financial gain from the patent.

A copyrighted work is also a form of intellectual property. One can
argue that software should not be copyrighted but instead should be
patented because sofware performs work or exhibits functionality, while
most or all conventional forms of copyrighted materials (music, movies,
books, art, etc) do not perform work or have any inherent functionality
of any sort.

So instead of enacting a time-limited protection for software that
starts the moment it is made available to the public, a comprimise would
be that software would have full copyright protection while it is
publically available, but would lose some aspects of it's protection
perhaps several years after it is has been withdrawn from public
availability.

[98 Guy]

~BD~ wrote:

> >> You are 'standing into danger' my friend.
> >
> > That's an odd phrase - "standing into danger".
>
> Not odd at all .......... especially if one has a nautical bent! ;)

Well, then, in that case - wouldn't "sailing into danger" be better?

[98 Guy]

MEB wrote:

> The determinative action is the right to *distribute* or not,,,
> Microsoft holds that right, you and others hold no such authority...

So those that are selling Windows on E-bay are violating copyright law -
are they not?

Aren't they "distributing" it - by way of sale?

> The whole ridiculous argument you raise is that because Microsoft
> has purportedly chosen NOT to distribute 98 then you SHOULD have
> that right...

What is really the issue is the USE of Windows 98 in a way that violates
the EULA.

I might burn a copy of Windows-98 on a stack of CD's and put them in a
closet. Does that cause harm or result in a loss of revenue for
Microsoft?

Does that violate the EULA? How would I know what the EULA is unless I
stick one of those CD's into a computer and boot it? What if I never
do?

I might hand out each CD to a friend, and they all might throw it away
or put it in their closet. Does that cause harm or result in a loss of
revenue for Microsoft?

The real issue is not really that CD's are copied or torrents are
transfering copies of the CD between people.

What matters is this:

Are there any installations of Windows-98 where the license to use the
software can't be traced back to a lawful sale of said licence by
Microsoft?

For example - if Microsoft sold a total of 100 million Windows-98
licenses world-wide, but if at any given point in time there were 100
million and 1 functioning installations of Windows-98, then it could be
said that Microsoft has been harmed and has suffered some financial loss
due to the 1 install that has no corresponding legal license.

There may now (in 2008) be 10 million functioning installations of
Windows 98, which means there are 90 million licenses that have become
lost, abandoned or discarded. Microsoft can't claim harm, even today,
unless the number of systems running Windows-98 rises to above 100
million, or the number of copies of windows-98 being made available for
sale (on e-bay, etc) exceeds 90 million.

> yeah sure, so if the car dealer refuses to sell that *classic*
> car, you should be able to steal it and sell or give it away...

Microsoft has already sold the rights (or licences) for millions of
individual installations of Windows-98.

It's like there are millions of that "classic car". Some have owners
who are driving them. Most are sitting around, abandond, on the street,
in the wilderness, in the garbage dump - and you can just go and take
them. Once a car company has sold a car to the first purchaser (which
is usually the dealer) they have no interest in the car after that -
like the ownership history, who buys it from who, who steals it from
whom, etc.

> Since NO ONE other than Microsoft has ever actually OWNED the
> software, you have absolutely no authority.

But someone DID purchase a license to USE the software, and that license
is NOT time-limited and there is NO prohibition against transfer.

The replication or distribution of a win-98 CD is irrelevant - I might
use it as a coaster or frisbee.

It's the installation and use of win-98 with or without a bona fide
license (product key) - that IS the issue.

Because in the end, as you say, Microsoft is selling the RIGHT to USE
the the software. And once they sell _a_ right, that right continues to
exist regardless who possesses it or how they came to possess it.

[James Hahn]

Please see my comments in-line.

"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
> James Hahn wrote:
>
>> > Why does a work that is no longer and WILL NEVER AGAIN be
>> > manufactured or sold deserve copyright protection?
>> >
>> > How is the holder of such a work harmed by the non-profit,
>> > non-commercial replication and use of that work?
>> >
>> > And don't blow off those questions by telling me to do
>> > research.
>
>> Firstly, why don't you do the research
>
> Why don't you provide a counter-argument.
>

There is no counter-argument to anyone who simply says "I think it ought to
be different than it is because that seems more sensible to me" which is the
sum total of the arguments you have put forward. You have not addressed any
of the points that have been part of the whole process of the establishment
of copyright protection across a wide range of jurisdictions over many
years. Provide one reason why you believe the original creator of a
copyrightable work is not entitled to protect that work from copying, and
maybe people will attempt to provide the evidence to disprove it. Don't just
say "because I can't see any reason" - you can't see any reason because you
haven't done the research. Unless you are prepared to say just how you can
dismiss all the argument and evidence about the value to the community that
derives from the ability to protect creative works, then there is no
argument to counter. But you can't do that because you do not understand
copyright, because you have not done the research.

> Why should a work that *will never again* be manufactured or sold need
> copyright protection?
>
> Why should such a work deserve copyright protection?
>
> If you know the reason, or you have a logical argument, then state it.
>
> If *you* want to perform research to come up with a counter argument,
> then do so. The onus is on you (or MEB) to provide a counter argument.
>

That's not how it works. You are suggesting that a broad set of laws can
either be ignored or should be changed because you don't think they are
appropriate for today's information-based environment. The onus is on you
to show why things are now so different from what they were when the
copyright laws were debated and refined in the legislative chambers and
courts throughout the world that these changes should now be made. When the
process by which the current laws were created is examined (which you seem
determined not to do) you will realize that there is a vast amount of
material addressing each specific point of copyright law, and the debate in
respect of when and how copyright should terminate is as extensive as any
other part. When you have determnined exactly which parts of those
arguments are no longer valid, then present them here and shoot them down.

>> When you find a single jurisdiction that ties the
>> enforcement of copyright to some potential or
>> actual ability of the rights-holder to profit
>> from the creative work,
>
> I never said that copyright benefits should take into account the
> potential for gain, revenue or profit.
>

How about "How is Microsoft harmed, financially or otherwise, today, by
those that obtain and use Windows-98 by any means? What exactly is
copyright law protecting, or conveying what benefit to Microsoft, with
regard to the casual circulation and use of Windows 98?"

That sure sounds to me like you are saying that the availability of
copyright protection should take into account the potential of the
rights-holder to profit from the product. And your following comments make
the same claim.

> A more rational copyright law could be structured as:
>
> a) a work that was never made public could / would be protected.
>

Copyright applies to a published creative work. If it isn't made public it
can't be copied and doesn't need copyright protection.

> b) a work that has been made public, and continues to be, could / would
> be protected.
>
> c) A work that was once made public, but has ceased to be so for some
> period of time, would lose some of it's protection.
>

If it's been made public it can't cease to be public. Once it's published
it's published forever.

> By "made public", I mean any form of presentation to the public, be it
> as an exhibition, broadcast, reproduction for sale or lease, etc.
>
> In a way that is similar to the protection given by a patent. A patent
> is a form of intellectual property that is disclosed in return for a
> period of protection to allow the patent holder to profit from the
> patent. It does not require the holder to do anything, and indeed the
> holder may do nothing to seek financial gain from the patent.
>

Why do we need something similar to a patent? Doesn't patent law look after
that situation? Copyright applies to creative works. Patent law applies to
inventions.

> A copyrighted work is also a form of intellectual property. One can
> argue that software should not be copyrighted but instead should be
> patented because sofware performs work or exhibits functionality, while
> most or all conventional forms of copyrighted materials (music, movies,
> books, art, etc) do not perform work or have any inherent functionality
> of any sort.
>

Whether software should be patentable or copyrightable is a completely
different argument that also has a large body of discussion (and which no
doubt you also have not consulted) and is not going to be debated here.

> So instead of enacting a time-limited protection for software that
> starts the moment it is made available to the public, a comprimise would
> be that software would have full copyright protection while it is
> publically available, but would lose some aspects of it's protection
> perhaps several years after it is has been withdrawn from public
> availability.

Once it's public it's public forever. What you really mean by "withdrawn
from public availability" is "no longer a commercial product". You have not
provided any argument to justify a reduction in the rights of the copyright
holder just because a copyrighted item ceases to be a commercial product. If
it is deserving of copyright protection when it first went on sale then it
is deserving of copyright protection for as long as the rights-holder
chooses. That's the determination of the settled body of copyright law and
you have not advanced any argument that suggests it ought to be otherwise.

[Gary S. Terhune[_2_]]

You're talking to the MOST ignorant of the regulars in this group (well,
"regular" as in a couple of years, not like the *real* regulars here.) Been
proven over and over and over and over ad nauseum. If I had any thought for
his welfare, I'd take up a collection to pay for a tutor in Logic. It would
have to be a very substantial sum, I should think. Might even turn out to be
a lifetime's vocation, and I already have too many of those.

Hope you're aren't expecting anything resembling a real debate. And I
*really* hope you don't have some fantasy about teaching him anything,
whether factual or procedural. If you did.... Well, let's just say I'd have
to start being concerned for your own sanity.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"James Hahn" > wrote in message
...
> Please see my comments in-line.
>
> "98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
>> James Hahn wrote:
>>
>>> > Why does a work that is no longer and WILL NEVER AGAIN be
>>> > manufactured or sold deserve copyright protection?
>>> >
>>> > How is the holder of such a work harmed by the non-profit,
>>> > non-commercial replication and use of that work?
>>> >
>>> > And don't blow off those questions by telling me to do
>>> > research.
>>
>>> Firstly, why don't you do the research
>>
>> Why don't you provide a counter-argument.
>>
>
> There is no counter-argument to anyone who simply says "I think it ought
> to be different than it is because that seems more sensible to me" which
> is the sum total of the arguments you have put forward. You have not
> addressed any of the points that have been part of the whole process of
> the establishment of copyright protection across a wide range of
> jurisdictions over many years. Provide one reason why you believe the
> original creator of a copyrightable work is not entitled to protect that
> work from copying, and maybe people will attempt to provide the evidence
> to disprove it. Don't just say "because I can't see any reason" - you
> can't see any reason because you haven't done the research. Unless you are
> prepared to say just how you can dismiss all the argument and evidence
> about the value to the community that derives from the ability to protect
> creative works, then there is no argument to counter. But you can't do
> that because you do not understand copyright, because you have not done
> the research.
>
>> Why should a work that *will never again* be manufactured or sold need
>> copyright protection?
>>
>> Why should such a work deserve copyright protection?
>>
>> If you know the reason, or you have a logical argument, then state it.
>>
>> If *you* want to perform research to come up with a counter argument,
>> then do so. The onus is on you (or MEB) to provide a counter argument.
>>
>
> That's not how it works. You are suggesting that a broad set of laws can
> either be ignored or should be changed because you don't think they are
> appropriate for today's information-based environment. The onus is on you
> to show why things are now so different from what they were when the
> copyright laws were debated and refined in the legislative chambers and
> courts throughout the world that these changes should now be made. When
> the process by which the current laws were created is examined (which you
> seem determined not to do) you will realize that there is a vast amount of
> material addressing each specific point of copyright law, and the debate
> in respect of when and how copyright should terminate is as extensive as
> any other part. When you have determnined exactly which parts of those
> arguments are no longer valid, then present them here and shoot them down.
>
>>> When you find a single jurisdiction that ties the
>>> enforcement of copyright to some potential or
>>> actual ability of the rights-holder to profit
>>> from the creative work,
>>
>> I never said that copyright benefits should take into account the
>> potential for gain, revenue or profit.
>>
>
> How about "How is Microsoft harmed, financially or otherwise, today, by
> those that obtain and use Windows-98 by any means? What exactly is
> copyright law protecting, or conveying what benefit to Microsoft, with
> regard to the casual circulation and use of Windows 98?"
>
> That sure sounds to me like you are saying that the availability of
> copyright protection should take into account the potential of the
> rights-holder to profit from the product. And your following comments
> make the same claim.
>
>> A more rational copyright law could be structured as:
>>
>> a) a work that was never made public could / would be protected.
>>
>
> Copyright applies to a published creative work. If it isn't made public it
> can't be copied and doesn't need copyright protection.
>
>> b) a work that has been made public, and continues to be, could / would
>> be protected.
>>
>> c) A work that was once made public, but has ceased to be so for some
>> period of time, would lose some of it's protection.
>>
>
> If it's been made public it can't cease to be public. Once it's published
> it's published forever.
>
>> By "made public", I mean any form of presentation to the public, be it
>> as an exhibition, broadcast, reproduction for sale or lease, etc.
>>
>> In a way that is similar to the protection given by a patent. A patent
>> is a form of intellectual property that is disclosed in return for a
>> period of protection to allow the patent holder to profit from the
>> patent. It does not require the holder to do anything, and indeed the
>> holder may do nothing to seek financial gain from the patent.
>>
>
> Why do we need something similar to a patent? Doesn't patent law look
> after that situation? Copyright applies to creative works. Patent law
> applies to inventions.
>
>> A copyrighted work is also a form of intellectual property. One can
>> argue that software should not be copyrighted but instead should be
>> patented because sofware performs work or exhibits functionality, while
>> most or all conventional forms of copyrighted materials (music, movies,
>> books, art, etc) do not perform work or have any inherent functionality
>> of any sort.
>>
>
> Whether software should be patentable or copyrightable is a completely
> different argument that also has a large body of discussion (and which no
> doubt you also have not consulted) and is not going to be debated here.
>
>> So instead of enacting a time-limited protection for software that
>> starts the moment it is made available to the public, a comprimise would
>> be that software would have full copyright protection while it is
>> publically available, but would lose some aspects of it's protection
>> perhaps several years after it is has been withdrawn from public
>> availability.
>
> Once it's public it's public forever. What you really mean by "withdrawn
> from public availability" is "no longer a commercial product". You have
> not provided any argument to justify a reduction in the rights of the
> copyright holder just because a copyrighted item ceases to be a commercial
> product. If it is deserving of copyright protection when it first went on
> sale then it is deserving of copyright protection for as long as the
> rights-holder chooses. That's the determination of the settled body of
> copyright law and you have not advanced any argument that suggests it
> ought to be otherwise.

[MEB[_2_]]

We did this before, read your BS from the last time:

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/ref/fedstat/copyright.htm

There is no argument you can raise that would allow the activity in which
you engage and solicit others to do.

--
MEB
a Peoples' counsel
--
_________



"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
| MEB wrote:
|
| > The determinative action is the right to *distribute* or not,,,
| > Microsoft holds that right, you and others hold no such authority...
|
| So those that are selling Windows on E-bay are violating copyright law -
| are they not?
|
| Aren't they "distributing" it - by way of sale?
|
| > The whole ridiculous argument you raise is that because Microsoft
| > has purportedly chosen NOT to distribute 98 then you SHOULD have
| > that right...
|
| What is really the issue is the USE of Windows 98 in a way that violates
| the EULA.
|
| I might burn a copy of Windows-98 on a stack of CD's and put them in a
| closet. Does that cause harm or result in a loss of revenue for
| Microsoft?
|
| Does that violate the EULA? How would I know what the EULA is unless I
| stick one of those CD's into a computer and boot it? What if I never
| do?
|
| I might hand out each CD to a friend, and they all might throw it away
| or put it in their closet. Does that cause harm or result in a loss of
| revenue for Microsoft?
|
| The real issue is not really that CD's are copied or torrents are
| transfering copies of the CD between people.
|
| What matters is this:
|
| Are there any installations of Windows-98 where the license to use the
| software can't be traced back to a lawful sale of said licence by
| Microsoft?
|
| For example - if Microsoft sold a total of 100 million Windows-98
| licenses world-wide, but if at any given point in time there were 100
| million and 1 functioning installations of Windows-98, then it could be
| said that Microsoft has been harmed and has suffered some financial loss
| due to the 1 install that has no corresponding legal license.
|
| There may now (in 2008) be 10 million functioning installations of
| Windows 98, which means there are 90 million licenses that have become
| lost, abandoned or discarded. Microsoft can't claim harm, even today,
| unless the number of systems running Windows-98 rises to above 100
| million, or the number of copies of windows-98 being made available for
| sale (on e-bay, etc) exceeds 90 million.
|
| > yeah sure, so if the car dealer refuses to sell that *classic*
| > car, you should be able to steal it and sell or give it away...
|
| Microsoft has already sold the rights (or licences) for millions of
| individual installations of Windows-98.
|
| It's like there are millions of that "classic car". Some have owners
| who are driving them. Most are sitting around, abandond, on the street,
| in the wilderness, in the garbage dump - and you can just go and take
| them. Once a car company has sold a car to the first purchaser (which
| is usually the dealer) they have no interest in the car after that -
| like the ownership history, who buys it from who, who steals it from
| whom, etc.
|
| > Since NO ONE other than Microsoft has ever actually OWNED the
| > software, you have absolutely no authority.
|
| But someone DID purchase a license to USE the software, and that license
| is NOT time-limited and there is NO prohibition against transfer.
|
| The replication or distribution of a win-98 CD is irrelevant - I might
| use it as a coaster or frisbee.
|
| It's the installation and use of win-98 with or without a bona fide
| license (product key) - that IS the issue.
|
| Because in the end, as you say, Microsoft is selling the RIGHT to USE
| the the software. And once they sell _a_ right, that right continues to
| exist regardless who possesses it or how they came to possess it.

[Dan]

MEB, how come Microsoft does not sell the 9x source code to the U.S. or
Canadian or another friendly government if Microsoft is not willing to
program for the 9x source code anymore because it is too expensive for
Microsoft to program for 2 source codes from what I have read about the
situation. (Note: I feel and I think many here would agree with me that
Windows 9x consumer source code was best in Windows 98 Second Edition because
Windows ME removed easy access to MS-DOS and broke easy compatibility with
older programs --- heck --- Microsoft has a white page document that weighs
in over 100 pages on securing Windows 98 and Windows NT networks so it
certainly sounds like Microsoft cares a lot about their older IP that is
still in use by a few companies, some individuals and within some governments)

"MEB" wrote:

> We did this before, read your BS from the last time:
>
> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/ref/fedstat/copyright.htm
>
> There is no argument you can raise that would allow the activity in which
> you engage and solicit others to do.
>
> --
> MEB
> a Peoples' counsel
> --
> _________
>
>
>
> "98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
> | MEB wrote:
> |
> | > The determinative action is the right to *distribute* or not,,,
> | > Microsoft holds that right, you and others hold no such authority...
> |
> | So those that are selling Windows on E-bay are violating copyright law -
> | are they not?
> |
> | Aren't they "distributing" it - by way of sale?
> |
> | > The whole ridiculous argument you raise is that because Microsoft
> | > has purportedly chosen NOT to distribute 98 then you SHOULD have
> | > that right...
> |
> | What is really the issue is the USE of Windows 98 in a way that violates
> | the EULA.
> |
> | I might burn a copy of Windows-98 on a stack of CD's and put them in a
> | closet. Does that cause harm or result in a loss of revenue for
> | Microsoft?
> |
> | Does that violate the EULA? How would I know what the EULA is unless I
> | stick one of those CD's into a computer and boot it? What if I never
> | do?
> |
> | I might hand out each CD to a friend, and they all might throw it away
> | or put it in their closet. Does that cause harm or result in a loss of
> | revenue for Microsoft?
> |
> | The real issue is not really that CD's are copied or torrents are
> | transfering copies of the CD between people.
> |
> | What matters is this:
> |
> | Are there any installations of Windows-98 where the license to use the
> | software can't be traced back to a lawful sale of said licence by
> | Microsoft?
> |
> | For example - if Microsoft sold a total of 100 million Windows-98
> | licenses world-wide, but if at any given point in time there were 100
> | million and 1 functioning installations of Windows-98, then it could be
> | said that Microsoft has been harmed and has suffered some financial loss
> | due to the 1 install that has no corresponding legal license.
> |
> | There may now (in 2008) be 10 million functioning installations of
> | Windows 98, which means there are 90 million licenses that have become
> | lost, abandoned or discarded. Microsoft can't claim harm, even today,
> | unless the number of systems running Windows-98 rises to above 100
> | million, or the number of copies of windows-98 being made available for
> | sale (on e-bay, etc) exceeds 90 million.
> |
> | > yeah sure, so if the car dealer refuses to sell that *classic*
> | > car, you should be able to steal it and sell or give it away...
> |
> | Microsoft has already sold the rights (or licences) for millions of
> | individual installations of Windows-98.
> |
> | It's like there are millions of that "classic car". Some have owners
> | who are driving them. Most are sitting around, abandond, on the street,
> | in the wilderness, in the garbage dump - and you can just go and take
> | them. Once a car company has sold a car to the first purchaser (which
> | is usually the dealer) they have no interest in the car after that -
> | like the ownership history, who buys it from who, who steals it from
> | whom, etc.
> |
> | > Since NO ONE other than Microsoft has ever actually OWNED the
> | > software, you have absolutely no authority.
> |
> | But someone DID purchase a license to USE the software, and that license
> | is NOT time-limited and there is NO prohibition against transfer.
> |
> | The replication or distribution of a win-98 CD is irrelevant - I might
> | use it as a coaster or frisbee.
> |
> | It's the installation and use of win-98 with or without a bona fide
> | license (product key) - that IS the issue.
> |
> | Because in the end, as you say, Microsoft is selling the RIGHT to USE
> | the the software. And once they sell _a_ right, that right continues to
> | exist regardless who possesses it or how they came to possess it.
>
>
>

[MEB[_2_]]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
| MEB, how come Microsoft does not sell the 9x source code to the U.S. or
| Canadian or another friendly government if Microsoft is not willing to
| program for the 9x source code anymore because it is too expensive for
| Microsoft to program for 2 source codes from what I have read about the
| situation. (Note: I feel and I think many here would agree with me that
| Windows 9x consumer source code was best in Windows 98 Second Edition
because
| Windows ME removed easy access to MS-DOS and broke easy compatibility with
| older programs --- heck --- Microsoft has a white page document that
weighs
| in over 100 pages on securing Windows 98 and Windows NT networks so it
| certainly sounds like Microsoft cares a lot about their older IP that is
| still in use by a few companies, some individuals and within some
governments)

Microsoft has or had many white papers and other related to the networking
aspects < I still have many hundreds locally;, and is aware of the existance
of the millions of users. And in reality, its not all that expensive to
maintain it.. it just no longer brings in the revenue desired.

As for why Microsoft retains its authority; you would have to take that up
with Microsoft.

--
MEB

--
_________

[Sunny]

"MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
...
> We did this before, read your BS from the last time:
>
> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/ref/fedstat/copyright.htm
>
> There is no argument you can raise that would allow the activity in
> which
> you engage and solicit others to do.
>
> "98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
<snip>

The ironic part about the whole thing is that Western piracy is peanuts,
compared to Asian practises.

On frequent trips, to Singapore/Malaysia/Indonesia I have noticed
thousands of OEM Win98-ME and XP CDs being openly sold off the shelf, in
shops. (Some shop keepers didn't know "retail" copies even existed)
Also, at a Microsoft promotion in Singapore, even the stall holders were
openly admitting pirating Microsoft stuff.
The largest thefts are from corporate/business systems.

[James Hahn]

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
...
> You're talking to the MOST ignorant of the regulars in this group (well,
> "regular" as in a couple of years, not like the *real* regulars here.)
> Been proven over and over and over and over ad nauseum. If I had any
> thought for his welfare, I'd take up a collection to pay for a tutor in
> Logic. It would have to be a very substantial sum, I should think. Might
> even turn out to be a lifetime's vocation, and I already have too many of
> those.
>
> Hope you're aren't expecting anything resembling a real debate. And I
> *really* hope you don't have some fantasy about teaching him anything,
> whether factual or procedural. If you did.... Well, let's just say I'd
> have to start being concerned for your own sanity.
>
> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS-MVP Shell/User
> http://grystmill.com
>

Well, I did jump in by noting that it was the silliest argument I had seen
in a long time. I think I may have made the same mistake in this NG before,
but as a publisher of creative works it is a topic that I feel some concern
about.

[~BD~[_2_]]

"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
> ~BD~ wrote:
>
>> >> You are 'standing into danger' my friend.
>> >
>> > That's an odd phrase - "standing into danger".
>>
>> Not odd at all .......... especially if one has a nautical bent! ;)
>
> Well, then, in that case - wouldn't "sailing into danger" be better?
>
__________________________________________________

Consider this, wise Guy:-

The industrial revolution of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries and the upsurge in
international commerce which followed resulted in the adoption of a number of international treaties
related to shipping, including safety. The subjects covered included tonnage measurement, the
prevention of collisions, signalling and others.

By the end of the nineteenth century suggestions had even been made for the creation of a permanent
international maritime body to deal with these and future measures. The plan was not put into
effect, but international co-operation continued in the twentieth century, with the adoption of
still more internationally-developed treaties.

By the time IMO came into existence in 1958, several important international conventions had already
been developed, including the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea of 1948, the
International Convention for the Prevention of Pollution of the Sea by Oil of 1954 and treaties
dealing with load lines and the prevention of collisions at sea.

IMO was made responsible for ensuring that the majority of these conventions were kept up to date.
It was also given the task of developing new conventions as and when the need arose.

The creation of IMO coincided with a period of tremendous change in world shipping and the
Organization was kept busy from the start developing new conventions and ensuring that existing
instruments kept pace with changes in shipping technology. It is now responsible for nearly 50
international conventions and agreements and has adopted numerous protocols and amendments.


Extract from 'Conventions' here:- http://www.imo.org/

HTH

Dave

[Angel]

Note Below
"Bill in Co." > wrote in message
...
: Angel wrote:
: > Buffalo,
: >
: > Maybe (98 Guy) knows more about computers, I am learning more about them
: > every day. He seems to know NOTHING about Scruples, Morals and
Integrity,
: > or
: > he just doesn't care about what the difference is between right and
wrong.
: > This subject has nothing to do with computer knowledge. This concerns
the
: > difference between right and wrong, scruples, morality and integrity,
: > nothing else.
: > Angel
:
: "scruples, morality and integrity"??? Wrong era and wrong generation
for
: that! You old fogie, you!!!!
:
All I have to say about your comment is: Do, Write and Say unto others AS
you would want them to Do, Write and Say to you. It would be a better world
if everyone believed and did this. Scruples, morality and integrity has
NEVER been connected with era or generation. It has never gone out of style.
Of course, there is nothing that would change your mind if you had your mind
set on "wrong era and wrong generation" no matter what. Anyway, you do not
know what generation I am from, this may give you a hint: I go to University
classes. Right now, I am taking Philosophy classes. Maybe you should be
going to those classes.

Angel

: > "Buffalo" > wrote in message
: > . ..
: >>
: >>
: >> Bill in Co. wrote:
: >>> Buffalo wrote:
: >>>> Angel wrote:
: >>>>> Thanks Dan,
: >>>>>
: >>>>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask.
: >>>>> He checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he
: >>>>> is in for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and
: >>>>> no matter what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter
: >>>>> what! He is just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
: >>>>>
: >>>>> Angel
: >>>>
: >>>> And who might you just be??
: >>>
: >>> She is Angel.
: >>
: >> Well, Duh? :) I think he (98 Guy) knows a hell of a lot more about
: >> Win98
: >> and computers than Angel.
:
:

[98 Guy]

James Hahn wrote:

> > Why don't you provide a counter-argument.
>
> There is no counter-argument to anyone who simply says "I think it
> ought to be different than it is because that seems more sensible
> to me"

I'm asking why should a work that is no longer and will never be made
available again require copyright protection?

Was copyright law written with that situation in mind?

> You have not addressed any of the points that have been part
> of the whole process of the establishment of copyright protection

I'm not saying that the concept of copyright protection has no logical
or rational basis.

I'm saying that society does not benefit from the enforcement of
perpetual copyright protection of a work that is no longer and will
never again be made available to the public by the owner of the work.

The concept of patent protection is more equitable for society in that
it gives the owner exclusive use of the patent for a fixed (but
relatively short) time frame. Through copyright law and the courts,
society conveys protection to the owner of copyrighted works, the
corollary being that society _should_ have access to the works if they
become abandoned by the owner, or at least should not be prosecuted for
simply replicating and distributing the works.

> Provide one reason why you believe the original creator of a
> copyrightable work is not entitled to protect that work from
> copying,

In the case of software, simple copying does not and should not
constitute a violation of copyright law, because unlike books or music
or movies or art, software can not be "experienced" unless it is used.
If I copy a book, the copy *is* the experience. Everyone here is hung
up on the copying aspect of the software distribution mechanism, which
logically can't be equated to the copying of other forms of creative
work.

[98 Guy]

Full-Quoter and Top-poster MEB wrote:

> We did this before, read your BS from the last time:

No MEB. I want to read your response this time.

| So those that are selling Windows on E-bay are violating copyright
| law - are they not?
|
| Aren't they "distributing" it - by way of sale?

Where is your response MEB?

Oh, that's right. I forgot.

You don't respond to straight forward questions by giving
straight-forward answers.

You operate in a cloud of fear that everything you type will and can be
held against you in a court of law.

[98 Guy]

~BD~ wrote:

> > Well, then, in that case - wouldn't "sailing into danger" be
> > better?

> Consider this, wise Guy:-
>
> (a brief explanation of maritime history and the origin of the "IMO")

Um, ok. That's nice.

Don't see what it has to do with what was being discussed.

[98 Guy]

Still waiting for a response to these points:

(A) Microsoft sells (or has sold) licenses to use Windows-98. As long
as every running installation of Windows-98 has a unique license (or in
most cases a product key) that is not shared or duplicated to any other
running installation, that nothing illegal or immoral is transpiring.

(B) Copying the Windows-98 CD or transmitting it to or receiving it
electronically from others should not be considered illegal or immoral.
Only the _use_ of Windows-98 (regardless of how it was obtained) should
be considered illegal or immoral if it runs counter to point (a) above.

Regardless if those points run counter to copyright law or what-ever
verbiage that microsoft has stamped on their CD's, the above 2 points
are equitable, logical and practical with respect to Microsoft and the
public in general.

[Dan]

Thank you Sunny and if that is indeed a fact that "The largest thefts are
from corporate/business systems." then it makes me think that Microsoft chose
poorly by choosing to continue to develop Windows NT business source code and
just leave the consumers behind with abandoning the 9x consumer source code.
As I have said before the rest of this year will prove especially interesting
to see if Mozilla gives up support of Firefox 2 by the end of the year and
then users are stuck with Opera <shudder> or possibly some other 9x supported
browser for using the 'Web with the proper protections. I know I will have
my router up and going by then and wrap up my research into Windows 98 Second
Edition and using other browsers such as Mozilla Firefox and Opera with it.
I will indeed continue to use Windows 98 Second Edition in protest of the
establishment and for the ability to run old games that will not run on XP
and I feel the old-school games were lots of fun and really creative in their
making unlike so many newer games that focus mainly on special effects,
sounds and graphics to the detriment of the story. This is just my 2/3 cents
for what little it is worth.

"Sunny" wrote:

>
> "MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
> ...
> > We did this before, read your BS from the last time:
> >
> > http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/ref/fedstat/copyright.htm
> >
> > There is no argument you can raise that would allow the activity in
> > which
> > you engage and solicit others to do.
> >
> > "98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
> <snip>
>
> The ironic part about the whole thing is that Western piracy is peanuts,
> compared to Asian practises.
>
> On frequent trips, to Singapore/Malaysia/Indonesia I have noticed
> thousands of OEM Win98-ME and XP CDs being openly sold off the shelf, in
> shops. (Some shop keepers didn't know "retail" copies even existed)
> Also, at a Microsoft promotion in Singapore, even the stall holders were
> openly admitting pirating Microsoft stuff.
> The largest thefts are from corporate/business systems.
>
>
>

[MEB[_2_]]

Here you go again, same garbage, now with your infamous Top-poster dig you
use when your infantile activities fail...

These questions WERE answered before IN DETAIL. If your memory is so bad, I
have them preserved on the web page to which I directed you.

I will advise though, that the page and site may become non-existent as
there is a legal matter being attended to at the moment related to the site.

Want something legal to discuss which hasn't been already been discussed to
[relative] finality in this group and elsewhere, here it is.
It directly relates to copyrighted materials and personal property.
Moreover, does give the opportunity for discussions into the various legal
aspects involved, and you, personally, to show your expertise in the legal
arena and materials and activities thereto.
The first aspects were presented in this group under:
Subject: Re: Do NOT use these hosting services - FreeWebHostingArea.com and
Orgfree.com

Reference:
From: "Maurice Edward, Brahier"
To: >; >
Subject: Re: Official Notice - 15 days in which to respond
Date: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:00 AM

You will provide the name, address, and telephone number of your legal
representative(s). Failure to comply will cause further action(s) related
thereto.

This is preliminary to legal action upon your service and you, personally,
as webmaster.

Maurice Edward, Brahier


Referenced messages:

Thu, 4 Sep 2008 09:31:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Official Notice - 15 days in which to respond
From:
To: "Maurice Edward, Brahier"
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When you register an account you must agree to our terms located at:
http://www.freewebhostingarea.com/agreement.html
According to them you have absolutely no rights here.
For your offending emails and for your defamatory actions our conversation
ends HERE.
==========================
By submitting a web page to FreeWebHostingArea.com or any other web page
hosting service on our network, you grant FreeWebHostingArea.com a
royalty-free, nonexclusive, worldwide, unrestricted license to use, copy,
transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, create compilations including,
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===================================
>
>
> DATE:
> 2008/09/04
> Time:
> 03:06 A.M. GMT-5 EDT
>
>
> It appears you have blocked access to my personal property and
> copyrighted materials.
>
> I have tried both the FTP and HTTP access.
>
> I have also noted you have openly and publicly defaced my personal and
> copyrighted property.
>
> The materials on the site, for the most part, are also Official documents
> from and in American courts and government Offices and Agencies, and fall
> under the protections of the U.S. and International Laws and governments.
>
> You will supply access to the materials within 15 days, or I will proceed
> accordingly. The matters fall under both U.S. and International Laws, and
> may be address both here in the U.S.A. and in your Nation concurrently.
>
> Maurice Edward, Brahier

--
MEB
a Peoples' counsel
--
_________



"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
| Full-Quoter and Top-poster MEB wrote:
|
| > We did this before, read your BS from the last time:
|
| No MEB. I want to read your response this time.
|
| | So those that are selling Windows on E-bay are violating copyright
| | law - are they not?
| |
| | Aren't they "distributing" it - by way of sale?
|
| Where is your response MEB?
|
| Oh, that's right. I forgot.
|
| You don't respond to straight forward questions by giving
| straight-forward answers.
|
| You operate in a cloud of fear that everything you type will and can be
| held against you in a court of law.

[~BD~[_2_]]

"Angel" > wrote in message ...
> Note Below
> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
> ...
> : "scruples, morality and integrity"??? Wrong era and wrong generation
> for
> : that! You old fogie, you!!!!
> :
> All I have to say about your comment is: Do, Write and Say unto others AS
> you would want them to Do, Write and Say to you. It would be a better world
> if everyone believed and did this. Scruples, morality and integrity has
> NEVER been connected with era or generation. It has never gone out of style.
> Of course, there is nothing that would change your mind if you had your mind
> set on "wrong era and wrong generation" no matter what. Anyway, you do not
> know what generation I am from, this may give you a hint: I go to University
> classes. Right now, I am taking Philosophy classes. Maybe you should be
> going to those classes.
>
> Angel
>

Hi Angel :)

I think Bill was having a little joke with you!

Maybe he, too, has been to the University of Life!

In which case, I suspect that his standards are much like yours ....... and mine! <smile>

Dave

--

[Angel]

Bill in Co.

Correction: Note below YOUR comment.

Angel

"Angel" > wrote in message
...
: Note Below
: "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
: ...
: : Angel wrote:
: : > Buffalo,
: : >
: : > Maybe (98 Guy) knows more about computers, I am learning more about
them
: : > every day. He seems to know NOTHING about Scruples, Morals and
: Integrity,
: : > or
: : > he just doesn't care about what the difference is between right and
: wrong.
: : > This subject has nothing to do with computer knowledge. This concerns
: the
: : > difference between right and wrong, scruples, morality and integrity,
: : > nothing else.
: : > Angel
: :
: : "scruples, morality and integrity"??? Wrong era and wrong generation
: for
: : that! You old fogie, you!!!!
: :
: All I have to say about your comment is: Do, Write and Say unto others AS
: you would want them to Do, Write and Say to you. It would be a better
world
: if everyone believed and did this. Scruples, morality and integrity has
: NEVER been connected with era or generation. It has never gone out of
style.
: Of course, there is nothing that would change your mind if you had your
mind
: set on "wrong era and wrong generation" no matter what. Anyway, you do not
: know what generation I am from, this may give you a hint: I go to
University
: classes. Right now, I am taking Philosophy classes. Maybe you should be
: going to those classes.
:
: Angel
:
: : > "Buffalo" > wrote in message
: : > . ..
: : >>
: : >>
: : >> Bill in Co. wrote:
: : >>> Buffalo wrote:
: : >>>> Angel wrote:
: : >>>>> Thanks Dan,
: : >>>>>
: : >>>>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask.
: : >>>>> He checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he
: : >>>>> is in for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and
: : >>>>> no matter what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter
: : >>>>> what! He is just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
: : >>>>>
: : >>>>> Angel
: : >>>>
: : >>>> And who might you just be??
: : >>>
: : >>> She is Angel.
: : >>
: : >> Well, Duh? :) I think he (98 Guy) knows a hell of a lot more about
: : >> Win98
: : >> and computers than Angel.
: :
: :
:
:

[Bill in Co.]

~BD~ wrote:
> "Angel" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Note Below
>> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "scruples, morality and integrity"??? Wrong era and wrong generation
>>> for that! You old fogie, you!!!!
>>>
>> All I have to say about your comment is: Do, Write and Say unto others AS
>> you would want them to Do, Write and Say to you. It would be a better
>> world
>> if everyone believed and did this. Scruples, morality and integrity has
>> NEVER been connected with era or generation. It has never gone out of
>> style.
>> Of course, there is nothing that would change your mind if you had your
>> mind
>> set on "wrong era and wrong generation" no matter what. Anyway, you do
>> not
>> know what generation I am from, this may give you a hint: I go to
>> University
>> classes. Right now, I am taking Philosophy classes. Maybe you should be
>> going to those classes.
>>
>> Angel
>>
>
> Hi Angel :)
>
> I think Bill was having a little joke with you!
>
> Maybe he, too, has been to the University of Life!
>
> In which case, I suspect that his standards are much like yours .......
> and
> mine! <smile>
> Dave


Right. Apparently my attempt at sarcasm was too subtle. :-)

[Bill in Co.]

Apparently my attempt at sarcasm was too subtle. :-)

Angel wrote:
> Bill in Co.
>
> Correction: Note below YOUR comment.
>
> Angel
>
> "Angel" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Note Below
>> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Angel wrote:
>>>> Buffalo,
>>>>
>>>> Maybe (98 Guy) knows more about computers, I am learning more about
>>>> them
>>>> every day. He seems to know NOTHING about Scruples, Morals and
>>>> Integrity,
>>>> or he just doesn't care about what the difference is between right and
>>>> wrong.
>>>> This subject has nothing to do with computer knowledge. This concerns
>>>> the
>>>> difference between right and wrong, scruples, morality and integrity,
>>>> nothing else.
>>>> Angel
>>>
>>> "scruples, morality and integrity"??? Wrong era and wrong generation
>>> for
>>> that! You old fogie, you!!!!
>>>
>> All I have to say about your comment is: Do, Write and Say unto others AS
>> you would want them to Do, Write and Say to you. It would be a better
>> world
>> if everyone believed and did this. Scruples, morality and integrity has
>> NEVER been connected with era or generation. It has never gone out of
>> style.
>> Of course, there is nothing that would change your mind if you had your
>> mind
>> set on "wrong era and wrong generation" no matter what. Anyway, you do
>> not
>> know what generation I am from, this may give you a hint: I go to
>> University
>> classes. Right now, I am taking Philosophy classes. Maybe you should be
>> going to those classes.
>>
>> Angel
>>
>>>> "Buffalo" > wrote in message
>>>> . ..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>>>>> Buffalo wrote:
>>>>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>>>>> Thanks Dan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to ask.
>>>>>>>> He checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he
>>>>>>>> is in for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and
>>>>>>>> no matter what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter
>>>>>>>> what! He is just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And who might you just be??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She is Angel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, Duh? :) I think he (98 Guy) knows a hell of a lot more about
>>>>> Win98 and computers than Angel.

[Angel]

Hi Dave,

This University is a "____State University" where I and other students go
for an education. In fact, right now, I am with other students that are
studying to become teachers, It is a 40000 & 50000 class. It is not the
"University of Life". This is in addition to "The University of Life".
Just setting the record straight.

Angel

"~BD~" > wrote in message
...
:
: "Angel" > wrote in message
...
: > Note Below
: > "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
: > ...
: > : "scruples, morality and integrity"??? Wrong era and wrong
generation
: > for
: > : that! You old fogie, you!!!!
: > :
: > All I have to say about your comment is: Do, Write and Say unto others
AS
: > you would want them to Do, Write and Say to you. It would be a better
world
: > if everyone believed and did this. Scruples, morality and integrity has
: > NEVER been connected with era or generation. It has never gone out of
style.
: > Of course, there is nothing that would change your mind if you had your
mind
: > set on "wrong era and wrong generation" no matter what. Anyway, you do
not
: > know what generation I am from, this may give you a hint: I go to
University
: > classes. Right now, I am taking Philosophy classes. Maybe you should be
: > going to those classes.
: >
: > Angel
: >
:
: Hi Angel :)
:
: I think Bill was having a little joke with you!
:
: Maybe he, too, has been to the University of Life!
:
: In which case, I suspect that his standards are much like yours .......
and mine! <smile>
:
: Dave
:
: --
:
:

[Angel]

No, it wasn't.

"Bill in Co." > wrote in message
...
: Apparently my attempt at sarcasm was too subtle. :-)
:
: Angel wrote:
: > Bill in Co.
: >
: > Correction: Note below YOUR comment.
: >
: > Angel
: >
: > "Angel" > wrote in message
: > ...
: >> Note Below
: >> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
: >> ...
: >>> Angel wrote:
: >>>> Buffalo,
: >>>>
: >>>> Maybe (98 Guy) knows more about computers, I am learning more about
: >>>> them
: >>>> every day. He seems to know NOTHING about Scruples, Morals and
: >>>> Integrity,
: >>>> or he just doesn't care about what the difference is between right
and
: >>>> wrong.
: >>>> This subject has nothing to do with computer knowledge. This concerns
: >>>> the
: >>>> difference between right and wrong, scruples, morality and integrity,
: >>>> nothing else.
: >>>> Angel
: >>>
: >>> "scruples, morality and integrity"??? Wrong era and wrong
generation
: >>> for
: >>> that! You old fogie, you!!!!
: >>>
: >> All I have to say about your comment is: Do, Write and Say unto others
AS
: >> you would want them to Do, Write and Say to you. It would be a better
: >> world
: >> if everyone believed and did this. Scruples, morality and integrity has
: >> NEVER been connected with era or generation. It has never gone out of
: >> style.
: >> Of course, there is nothing that would change your mind if you had your
: >> mind
: >> set on "wrong era and wrong generation" no matter what. Anyway, you do
: >> not
: >> know what generation I am from, this may give you a hint: I go to
: >> University
: >> classes. Right now, I am taking Philosophy classes. Maybe you should be
: >> going to those classes.
: >>
: >> Angel
: >>
: >>>> "Buffalo" > wrote in message
: >>>> . ..
: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
: >>>>>> Buffalo wrote:
: >>>>>>> Angel wrote:
: >>>>>>>> Thanks Dan,
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to
ask.
: >>>>>>>> He checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? Maybe he
: >>>>>>>> is in for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all" and
: >>>>>>>> no matter what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter
: >>>>>>>> what! He is just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> Angel
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>> And who might you just be??
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>> She is Angel.
: >>>>>
: >>>>> Well, Duh? :) I think he (98 Guy) knows a hell of a lot more about
: >>>>> Win98 and computers than Angel.
:
:

[Buffalo]

Bill in Co. wrote:
> Apparently my attempt at sarcasm was too subtle. :-)

No question about it.

[Gary S. Terhune[_2_]]

I understand. Just wanted you to know who you're dealing with.

Note: You should NEVER use your own email address in newsgroups. Ever. Use a
fake one like one I often use ), or what I'm doing now --
I simply put None in the email box. Windows Mail will probably complain that
it doesn't look like an email address, but just tell it to go ahead, anyway.

The email listed for you below is now on thousands of SPAM mail lists.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"James Hahn" > wrote in message
...
> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
> ...
>> You're talking to the MOST ignorant of the regulars in this group (well,
>> "regular" as in a couple of years, not like the *real* regulars here.)
>> Been proven over and over and over and over ad nauseum. If I had any
>> thought for his welfare, I'd take up a collection to pay for a tutor in
>> Logic. It would have to be a very substantial sum, I should think. Might
>> even turn out to be a lifetime's vocation, and I already have too many of
>> those.
>>
>> Hope you're aren't expecting anything resembling a real debate. And I
>> *really* hope you don't have some fantasy about teaching him anything,
>> whether factual or procedural. If you did.... Well, let's just say I'd
>> have to start being concerned for your own sanity.
>>
>> --
>> Gary S. Terhune
>> MS-MVP Shell/User
>> http://grystmill.com
>>
>
> Well, I did jump in by noting that it was the silliest argument I had seen
> in a long time. I think I may have made the same mistake in this NG
> before, but as a publisher of creative works it is a topic that I feel
> some concern about.

[~BD~[_2_]]

Good luck with your studies, Angel :)

Dave
--

"Angel" > wrote in message ...
> Hi Dave,
>
> This University is a "____State University" where I and other students go
> for an education. In fact, right now, I am with other students that are
> studying to become teachers, It is a 40000 & 50000 class. It is not the
> "University of Life". This is in addition to "The University of Life".
> Just setting the record straight.
>
> Angel

><snip>

[Normanny]

Hi all,
Thanks for all responses! I really should have been more clearer in my
request in the first place that I need advise rather than a physical copy of
the W98se.

When I started installing my Netgear modem on my laptop with a licensed
W98se installed, there are dll's that are missing. I was hoping that there
are ways of getting this missing dll's by sending my request here.

But, thanks anyway if there are none.
Normanny.



"Normanny" wrote:

> Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition. I need to
> upgrade my old Windows 98 and be able to install a Netgear 108 mbps Wireless
> PC Card. Appreciate any help!
> --
> normanny

[Normanny]

Philo, thanks so much for your help!
Normanny.

"philo" wrote:

>
> "Normanny" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition. I need
> to
> > upgrade my old Windows 98 and be able to install a Netgear 108 mbps
> Wireless
> > PC Card. Appreciate any help!
>
>
> You can probably get a win98se disk on ebay
>
>
> I assume the documentation that came with the card stated that Win98se or
> above was required???
>
>
>

[Angel]

Normanny,

They have one on sale at Ebay. I just went up there. It is Microsoft Windows
98SE Full Version W/CD Media, Boot Disk, COA Sealed. I did not catch the
price. It would not be too expensive and it would be the safest way to go.
They even have the name of the store "American Electronics Mart/DCC Inc." It
says something about an Ebay store.

Angel

"Normanny" > wrote in message
...
: Hi all,
: Thanks for all responses! I really should have been more clearer in my
: request in the first place that I need advise rather than a physical copy
of
: the W98se.
:
: When I started installing my Netgear modem on my laptop with a licensed
: W98se installed, there are dll's that are missing. I was hoping that
there
: are ways of getting this missing dll's by sending my request here.
:
: But, thanks anyway if there are none.
: Normanny.
:
:
:
: "Normanny" wrote:
:
: > Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition. I
need to
: > upgrade my old Windows 98 and be able to install a Netgear 108 mbps
Wireless
: > PC Card. Appreciate any help!
: > --
: > normanny

[Angel]

Thank you, Dave

"~BD~" > wrote in message
...
: Good luck with your studies, Angel :)
:
: Dave
: --
:
: "Angel" > wrote in message
...
: > Hi Dave,
: >
: > This University is a "____State University" where I and other students
go
: > for an education. In fact, right now, I am with other students that are
: > studying to become teachers, It is a 40000 & 50000 class. It is not the
: > "University of Life". This is in addition to "The University of Life".
: > Just setting the record straight.
: >
: > Angel
:
: ><snip>
:
:

[DaffyD®]

Which of the 7 Deadly Sins is software piracy?
--
{ : [|]=( DaffyD®

If I knew where I was I'd be there now.


> wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:37:49 -0400, 98 Guy > wrote:
>
> >glee wrote:
> >
> >> Still blatantly promoting software piracy, I see.
> >
> >Why is it piracy when the manufacturer no longer sells the item in
> >question?
> >
> >And don't give me "well you can buy it on e-bay" crap. There is no
> >garantee that anyone selling win-98 on e-bay is selling a version that
> >*can* be re-sold or used according to it's EULA, or that the person
> >selling it isin't still using the same product key that they're
> >purporting to sell.
> >
> >If it's a book, a music or movie cd that is still available for retail
> >sale, then yup, there is such a thing a piracy.
> >
> >If it's any of the above that is no longer in print or being stamped or
> >sold, then making copies of it and passing it around is not piracy.
>
> People who copy ANY softeware are sinners in the eyes of God and they
> WILL go straight to HELL when they die. This needs no further
> explanation.
>
> Jesus Loves You
>
> Ned

[glee]

Does the computer have the installation files from the CD, on the hard drive? Many
manufacturers included the Win98 installation files (which include a large number of
..cab files) in this folder tree:
C:\Windows\Options\Cabs

First, click Start> Settings> Folder Options> View tab, and click to enable "Show
All Files" and click OK.
Now look for that folder tree and let us know if the location exists on your
computer, and if it contains a large number of .cab files.

If you find the Windows setup files and .cab files in that folder tree, you can use
it as the source to extract the missing files.

<canned>
Extract the file from the .cab files on your Windows CD, or from the .cab file
location on your hard drive, to the Windows\System folder, using the"Extract one
file" option of System File Checker (SFC).

Using SFC to extract a file:
http://www.rickrogers.org/sfc.htm#1pp
http://www.rickrogers.org/sfc.htm#2pp

HOW TO: Extract Original Compressed Windows Files:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=129605#5
</canned>

--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm


"Normanny" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
> Thanks for all responses! I really should have been more clearer in my
> request in the first place that I need advise rather than a physical copy of
> the W98se.
>
> When I started installing my Netgear modem on my laptop with a licensed
> W98se installed, there are dll's that are missing. I was hoping that there
> are ways of getting this missing dll's by sending my request here.
>
> But, thanks anyway if there are none.
> Normanny.
>
>
>
> "Normanny" wrote:
>
>> Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition. I need to
>> upgrade my old Windows 98 and be able to install a Netgear 108 mbps Wireless
>> PC Card. Appreciate any help!
>> --
>> normanny

[Bill in Co.]

Maybe you ought to read "The Greatest Generation", and get back to me on
that.
If you think personal values, and one's sense of personal responsibility and
accountability, haven't changed much since then, then ....

Angel wrote:
> No, it wasn't.
>
> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Apparently my attempt at sarcasm was too subtle. :-)
>>
>> Angel wrote:
>>> Bill in Co.
>>>
>>> Correction: Note below YOUR comment.
>>>
>>> Angel
>>>
>>> "Angel" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Note Below
>>>> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>>> Buffalo,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe (98 Guy) knows more about computers, I am learning more about
>>>>>> them every day. He seems to know NOTHING about Scruples, Morals and
>>>>>> Integrity, or he just doesn't care about what the difference is
>>>>>> between right
>>>>>> and wrong.
>>>>>> This subject has nothing to do with computer knowledge. This concerns
>>>>>> the difference between right and wrong, scruples, morality and
>>>>>> integrity,
>>>>>> nothing else.
>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>
>>>>> "scruples, morality and integrity"??? Wrong era and wrong
>>>>> generation
>>>>> for that! You old fogie, you!!!!
>>>>>
>>>> All I have to say about your comment is: Do, Write and Say unto others
>>>> AS
>>>> you would want them to Do, Write and Say to you. It would be a better
>>>> world if everyone believed and did this. Scruples, morality and
>>>> integrity has
>>>> NEVER been connected with era or generation. It has never gone out of
>>>> style.
>>>> Of course, there is nothing that would change your mind if you had your
>>>> mind
>>>> set on "wrong era and wrong generation" no matter what. Anyway, you do
>>>> not know what generation I am from, this may give you a hint: I go to
>>>> University
>>>> classes. Right now, I am taking Philosophy classes. Maybe you should be
>>>> going to those classes.
>>>>
>>>> Angel
>>>>
>>>>>> "Buffalo" > wrote in message
>>>>>> . ..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>>>>>>> Buffalo wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Dan,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to
>>>>>>>>>> ask.
>>>>>>>>>> He checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? he
>>>>>>>>>> he is in for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all"
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> no matter what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter
>>>>>>>>>> what! He is just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And who might you just be??
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> She is Angel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, Duh? :) I think he (98 Guy) knows a hell of a lot more about
>>>>>>> Win98 and computers than Angel.

[glee]

#8.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/


"DaffyD®" > wrote in message
...
> Which of the 7 Deadly Sins is software piracy?
> --
> { : [|]=( DaffyD®
>
> If I knew where I was I'd be there now.
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:37:49 -0400, 98 Guy > wrote:
>>
>> >glee wrote:
>> >
>> >> Still blatantly promoting software piracy, I see.
>> >
>> >Why is it piracy when the manufacturer no longer sells the item in
>> >question?
>> >
>> >And don't give me "well you can buy it on e-bay" crap. There is no
>> >garantee that anyone selling win-98 on e-bay is selling a version that
>> >*can* be re-sold or used according to it's EULA, or that the person
>> >selling it isin't still using the same product key that they're
>> >purporting to sell.
>> >
>> >If it's a book, a music or movie cd that is still available for retail
>> >sale, then yup, there is such a thing a piracy.
>> >
>> >If it's any of the above that is no longer in print or being stamped or
>> >sold, then making copies of it and passing it around is not piracy.
>>
>> People who copy ANY softeware are sinners in the eyes of God and they
>> WILL go straight to HELL when they die. This needs no further
>> explanation.
>>
>> Jesus Loves You
>>
>> Ned
>
>

[Normanny]

Hi Angel,
Really appreciate your response and help! Thanks for the info.
Normanny.

"Angel" wrote:

> Normanny,
>
> They have one on sale at Ebay. I just went up there. It is Microsoft Windows
> 98SE Full Version W/CD Media, Boot Disk, COA Sealed. I did not catch the
> price. It would not be too expensive and it would be the safest way to go.
> They even have the name of the store "American Electronics Mart/DCC Inc." It
> says something about an Ebay store.
>
> Angel
>
> "Normanny" > wrote in message
> ...
> : Hi all,
> : Thanks for all responses! I really should have been more clearer in my
> : request in the first place that I need advise rather than a physical copy
> of
> : the W98se.
> :
> : When I started installing my Netgear modem on my laptop with a licensed
> : W98se installed, there are dll's that are missing. I was hoping that
> there
> : are ways of getting this missing dll's by sending my request here.
> :
> : But, thanks anyway if there are none.
> : Normanny.
> :
> :
> :
> : "Normanny" wrote:
> :
> : > Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition. I
> need to
> : > upgrade my old Windows 98 and be able to install a Netgear 108 mbps
> Wireless
> : > PC Card. Appreciate any help!
> : > --
> : > normanny
>
>
>

[Normanny]

Hi Glee,
Really appreciate your response and help! I will try doing what you
suggested. Thanks for the info!
Normanny.

"glee" wrote:

> Does the computer have the installation files from the CD, on the hard drive? Many
> manufacturers included the Win98 installation files (which include a large number of
> ..cab files) in this folder tree:
> C:\Windows\Options\Cabs
>
> First, click Start> Settings> Folder Options> View tab, and click to enable "Show
> All Files" and click OK.
> Now look for that folder tree and let us know if the location exists on your
> computer, and if it contains a large number of .cab files.
>
> If you find the Windows setup files and .cab files in that folder tree, you can use
> it as the source to extract the missing files.
>
> <canned>
> Extract the file from the .cab files on your Windows CD, or from the .cab file
> location on your hard drive, to the Windows\System folder, using the"Extract one
> file" option of System File Checker (SFC).
>
> Using SFC to extract a file:
> http://www.rickrogers.org/sfc.htm#1pp
> http://www.rickrogers.org/sfc.htm#2pp
>
> HOW TO: Extract Original Compressed Windows Files:
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=129605#5
> </canned>
>
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
> http://dts-l.net/
> http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm
>
>
> "Normanny" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi all,
> > Thanks for all responses! I really should have been more clearer in my
> > request in the first place that I need advise rather than a physical copy of
> > the W98se.
> >
> > When I started installing my Netgear modem on my laptop with a licensed
> > W98se installed, there are dll's that are missing. I was hoping that there
> > are ways of getting this missing dll's by sending my request here.
> >
> > But, thanks anyway if there are none.
> > Normanny.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Normanny" wrote:
> >
> >> Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition. I need to
> >> upgrade my old Windows 98 and be able to install a Netgear 108 mbps Wireless
> >> PC Card. Appreciate any help!
> >> --
> >> normanny
>
>

[98 Guy]

Top Poster and full-quoter MEB wrote:

> now with your infamous Top-poster dig you use when your infantile
> activities fail...

Just calling it like I see it. If you don't want to be called a "top
poster" or "full quoter" then apply a little effort and learn correct
usenet posting etiquette.

| So those that are selling Windows on E-bay are violating copyright
| law - are they not?
|
| Aren't they "distributing" it - by way of sale?

> These questions WERE answered before IN DETAIL.

Quit lying and just answer the question. You didn't answer that
question before.

> If your memory is so bad, I have them preserved on the web page
> to which I directed you.

What-ever you posted or what-ever web-page you're blathering about is
garbage.

MEB wrote:

> The determinative action is the right to *distribute* or not,,,
> Microsoft holds that right, you and others hold no such authority...

Answer the question MEB. Answer it here.

Are Windows-98 sellers on E-bay violating copyright law by
"distributing" it by way of sale?

[Normanny]

Hi Glee,
I didn't see the installation files in the View All Files, in fact when I
hit OK, it doesn't do anything. Anyway thanks for the help! I think I might
get it from other sources.
Normanny.

"glee" wrote:

> Does the computer have the installation files from the CD, on the hard drive? Many
> manufacturers included the Win98 installation files (which include a large number of
> ..cab files) in this folder tree:
> C:\Windows\Options\Cabs
>
> First, click Start> Settings> Folder Options> View tab, and click to enable "Show
> All Files" and click OK.
> Now look for that folder tree and let us know if the location exists on your
> computer, and if it contains a large number of .cab files.
>
> If you find the Windows setup files and .cab files in that folder tree, you can use
> it as the source to extract the missing files.
>
> <canned>
> Extract the file from the .cab files on your Windows CD, or from the .cab file
> location on your hard drive, to the Windows\System folder, using the"Extract one
> file" option of System File Checker (SFC).
>
> Using SFC to extract a file:
> http://www.rickrogers.org/sfc.htm#1pp
> http://www.rickrogers.org/sfc.htm#2pp
>
> HOW TO: Extract Original Compressed Windows Files:
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=129605#5
> </canned>
>
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
> http://dts-l.net/
> http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm
>
>
> "Normanny" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi all,
> > Thanks for all responses! I really should have been more clearer in my
> > request in the first place that I need advise rather than a physical copy of
> > the W98se.
> >
> > When I started installing my Netgear modem on my laptop with a licensed
> > W98se installed, there are dll's that are missing. I was hoping that there
> > are ways of getting this missing dll's by sending my request here.
> >
> > But, thanks anyway if there are none.
> > Normanny.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Normanny" wrote:
> >
> >> Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition. I need to
> >> upgrade my old Windows 98 and be able to install a Netgear 108 mbps Wireless
> >> PC Card. Appreciate any help!
> >> --
> >> normanny
>
>

[98 Guy]

"Bill in Co." wrote:

> If you think personal values, and one's sense of personal
> responsibility and accountability, haven't changed much
> since then, then ....

What a bunch of maroons -

Getting all bent out of shape over the morality of passing around copies
of a piece of software that Macro$haft hasn't even sold for 4 years and
will never sell again.

This is the same Milkro$haft company that has been fined many times for
illegal business practices. And they've bought their way out of being
prosecuted as an illegal monopoly because they gave the US gov't all the
back doors they need to get into YOUR XP or vista computer.

Micro$oft has a proven record of being a sociopathic corporate entity.
They don't deserve to be treated with morality because they have none.

[Gary S. Terhune[_2_]]

Ummm.... It was the Greatest Generation that created the society that you so
demonize.

Blame Frankenstein, not the monster.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." > wrote in message
...
> Maybe you ought to read "The Greatest Generation", and get back to me on
> that.
> If you think personal values, and one's sense of personal responsibility
> and accountability, haven't changed much since then, then ....
>
> Angel wrote:
>> No, it wasn't.
>>
>> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Apparently my attempt at sarcasm was too subtle. :-)
>>>
>>> Angel wrote:
>>>> Bill in Co.
>>>>
>>>> Correction: Note below YOUR comment.
>>>>
>>>> Angel
>>>>
>>>> "Angel" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Note Below
>>>>> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>>>> Buffalo,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe (98 Guy) knows more about computers, I am learning more about
>>>>>>> them every day. He seems to know NOTHING about Scruples, Morals and
>>>>>>> Integrity, or he just doesn't care about what the difference is
>>>>>>> between right
>>>>>>> and wrong.
>>>>>>> This subject has nothing to do with computer knowledge. This
>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>> the difference between right and wrong, scruples, morality and
>>>>>>> integrity,
>>>>>>> nothing else.
>>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "scruples, morality and integrity"??? Wrong era and wrong
>>>>>> generation
>>>>>> for that! You old fogie, you!!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>> All I have to say about your comment is: Do, Write and Say unto others
>>>>> AS
>>>>> you would want them to Do, Write and Say to you. It would be a better
>>>>> world if everyone believed and did this. Scruples, morality and
>>>>> integrity has
>>>>> NEVER been connected with era or generation. It has never gone out of
>>>>> style.
>>>>> Of course, there is nothing that would change your mind if you had
>>>>> your mind
>>>>> set on "wrong era and wrong generation" no matter what. Anyway, you do
>>>>> not know what generation I am from, this may give you a hint: I go to
>>>>> University
>>>>> classes. Right now, I am taking Philosophy classes. Maybe you should
>>>>> be
>>>>> going to those classes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Angel
>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Buffalo" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> . ..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Buffalo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Dan,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to
>>>>>>>>>>> ask.
>>>>>>>>>>> He checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? he
>>>>>>>>>>> he is in for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it all"
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> no matter what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter
>>>>>>>>>>> what! He is just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And who might you just be??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> She is Angel.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, Duh? :) I think he (98 Guy) knows a hell of a lot more
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> Win98 and computers than Angel.
>
>

[Gary S. Terhune[_2_]]

After setting "Show all files", use Find>Files & Folders to search for
WIN98*.CAB files.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"Normanny" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Glee,
> I didn't see the installation files in the View All Files, in fact when I
> hit OK, it doesn't do anything. Anyway thanks for the help! I think I
> might
> get it from other sources.
> Normanny.
>
> "glee" wrote:
>
>> Does the computer have the installation files from the CD, on the hard
>> drive? Many
>> manufacturers included the Win98 installation files (which include a
>> large number of
>> ..cab files) in this folder tree:
>> C:\Windows\Options\Cabs
>>
>> First, click Start> Settings> Folder Options> View tab, and click to
>> enable "Show
>> All Files" and click OK.
>> Now look for that folder tree and let us know if the location exists on
>> your
>> computer, and if it contains a large number of .cab files.
>>
>> If you find the Windows setup files and .cab files in that folder tree,
>> you can use
>> it as the source to extract the missing files.
>>
>> <canned>
>> Extract the file from the .cab files on your Windows CD, or from the .cab
>> file
>> location on your hard drive, to the Windows\System folder, using
>> the"Extract one
>> file" option of System File Checker (SFC).
>>
>> Using SFC to extract a file:
>> http://www.rickrogers.org/sfc.htm#1pp
>> http://www.rickrogers.org/sfc.htm#2pp
>>
>> HOW TO: Extract Original Compressed Windows Files:
>> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=129605#5
>> </canned>
>>
>> --
>> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
>> http://dts-l.net/
>> http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm
>>
>>
>> "Normanny" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Hi all,
>> > Thanks for all responses! I really should have been more clearer in my
>> > request in the first place that I need advise rather than a physical
>> > copy of
>> > the W98se.
>> >
>> > When I started installing my Netgear modem on my laptop with a licensed
>> > W98se installed, there are dll's that are missing. I was hoping that
>> > there
>> > are ways of getting this missing dll's by sending my request here.
>> >
>> > But, thanks anyway if there are none.
>> > Normanny.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "Normanny" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition. I
>> >> need to
>> >> upgrade my old Windows 98 and be able to install a Netgear 108 mbps
>> >> Wireless
>> >> PC Card. Appreciate any help!
>> >> --
>> >> normanny
>>
>>

[Bill in Co.]

No, it was the hippies. Sorry, I wasn't part and parcel of that
"movement", and my values echo those of my parents, brought up during the
Great Depression, not the Boomer set. I served during the Vietnam War,
while they were getting high on acid.

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> Ummm.... It was the Greatest Generation that created the society that you
> so
> demonize.
>
> Blame Frankenstein, not the monster.
>
> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS-MVP Shell/User
> http://grystmill.com
>
> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Maybe you ought to read "The Greatest Generation", and get back to me on
>> that. If you think personal values, and one's sense of personal
>> responsibility
>> and accountability, haven't changed much since then, then ....
>>
>> Angel wrote:
>>> No, it wasn't.
>>>
>>> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Apparently my attempt at sarcasm was too subtle. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>> Bill in Co.
>>>>>
>>>>> Correction: Note below YOUR comment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Angel
>>>>>
>>>>> "Angel" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Note Below
>>>>>> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>>>>> Buffalo,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe (98 Guy) knows more about computers, I am learning more about
>>>>>>>> them every day. He seems to know NOTHING about Scruples, Morals
>>>>>>>> and Integrity, or he just doesn't care about what the difference is
>>>>>>>> between right and wrong.
>>>>>>>> This subject has nothing to do with computer knowledge. This
>>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>>> the difference between right and wrong, scruples, morality and
>>>>>>>> integrity,
>>>>>>>> nothing else.
>>>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "scruples, morality and integrity"??? Wrong era and wrong
>>>>>>> generation for that! You old fogie, you!!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> All I have to say about your comment is: Do, Write and Say unto
>>>>>> others
>>>>>> AS you would want them to Do, Write and Say to you. It would be a
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> world if everyone believed and did this. Scruples, morality and
>>>>>> integrity has
>>>>>> NEVER been connected with era or generation. It has never gone out of
>>>>>> style.
>>>>>> Of course, there is nothing that would change your mind if you had
>>>>>> your mind
>>>>>> set on "wrong era and wrong generation" no matter what. Anyway, you
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> not know what generation I am from, this may give you a hint: I go to
>>>>>> University
>>>>>> classes. Right now, I am taking Philosophy classes. Maybe you should
>>>>>> be going to those classes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Buffalo" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> . ..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Buffalo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Dan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to
>>>>>>>>>>>> ask.
>>>>>>>>>>>> He checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? he
>>>>>>>>>>>> he is in for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it
>>>>>>>>>>>> all" and
>>>>>>>>>>>> no matter what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no matter
>>>>>>>>>>>> what! He is just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And who might you just be??
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> She is Angel.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, Duh? :) I think he (98 Guy) knows a hell of a lot more
>>>>>>>>> about Win98 and computers than Angel.

[Dan]

hmm, sure it wasn't 9 Glen, <grin>

"glee" wrote:

> #8.
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
> http://dts-l.net/
>
>
> "DaffyD®" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Which of the 7 Deadly Sins is software piracy?
> > --
> > { : [|]=( DaffyD®
> >
> > If I knew where I was I'd be there now.
> >
> >
> > > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:37:49 -0400, 98 Guy > wrote:
> >>
> >> >glee wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Still blatantly promoting software piracy, I see.
> >> >
> >> >Why is it piracy when the manufacturer no longer sells the item in
> >> >question?
> >> >
> >> >And don't give me "well you can buy it on e-bay" crap. There is no
> >> >garantee that anyone selling win-98 on e-bay is selling a version that
> >> >*can* be re-sold or used according to it's EULA, or that the person
> >> >selling it isin't still using the same product key that they're
> >> >purporting to sell.
> >> >
> >> >If it's a book, a music or movie cd that is still available for retail
> >> >sale, then yup, there is such a thing a piracy.
> >> >
> >> >If it's any of the above that is no longer in print or being stamped or
> >> >sold, then making copies of it and passing it around is not piracy.
> >>
> >> People who copy ANY softeware are sinners in the eyes of God and they
> >> WILL go straight to HELL when they die. This needs no further
> >> explanation.
> >>
> >> Jesus Loves You
> >>
> >> Ned
> >
> >
>
>

[Dan]

98 Guy, are you saying that Apple with Steve Jobs and its prideful ways is
better than Microsoft. How about just going with Unix/Linux like for example
Ubantu Linux which is really free and I have found it to be useful and then
you can just not worry about Microsoft and Apple and your problem is solved
because you are using software that is meant to be freely shared and freely
improved upon and you 98 Guy can make Linux better for the masses and even
easier to use and redirect your energy into a positive and a good project.

"98 Guy" wrote:

> "Bill in Co." wrote:
>
> > If you think personal values, and one's sense of personal
> > responsibility and accountability, haven't changed much
> > since then, then ....
>
> What a bunch of maroons -
>
> Getting all bent out of shape over the morality of passing around copies
> of a piece of software that Macro$haft hasn't even sold for 4 years and
> will never sell again.
>
> This is the same Milkro$haft company that has been fined many times for
> illegal business practices. And they've bought their way out of being
> prosecuted as an illegal monopoly because they gave the US gov't all the
> back doors they need to get into YOUR XP or vista computer.
>
> Micro$oft has a proven record of being a sociopathic corporate entity.
> They don't deserve to be treated with morality because they have none.
>

[MEB[_2_]]

Why would we or in particular I waste more time, again, on you,, you are
nothing, insignificant, hold no value, are unintelligent, and no matter how
many times the issues and questions ARE answered, you never understand or
comprehend the answer no matter how much it "smacks you in the head".. Heck
you won't even review the cases to which you pointed which spell out the
answers to your questions, YET AGAIN. BTW: if you bothered to check via the
search engines you would find that the E-bay/online auction site issue was
addressed in the courts...

You're a waste of time and always have been. Yet another taking up space on
this planet we could all do without. Mindlessly posting in the newsgroups to
make yourself feel important. Another who should ask themselves the question
of just what function you serve on this planet or ever have.
Got kids? I feel extremely sorry for them.

--
MEB
a Peoples' counsel
--
_________



"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
| Top Poster and full-quoter MEB wrote:
|
| > now with your infamous Top-poster dig you use when your infantile
| > activities fail...
|
| Just calling it like I see it. If you don't want to be called a "top
| poster" or "full quoter" then apply a little effort and learn correct
| usenet posting etiquette.
|
| | So those that are selling Windows on E-bay are violating copyright
| | law - are they not?
| |
| | Aren't they "distributing" it - by way of sale?
|
| > These questions WERE answered before IN DETAIL.
|
| Quit lying and just answer the question. You didn't answer that
| question before.
|
| > If your memory is so bad, I have them preserved on the web page
| > to which I directed you.
|
| What-ever you posted or what-ever web-page you're blathering about is
| garbage.
|
| MEB wrote:
|
| > The determinative action is the right to *distribute* or not,,,
| > Microsoft holds that right, you and others hold no such authority...
|
| Answer the question MEB. Answer it here.
|
| Are Windows-98 sellers on E-bay violating copyright law by
| "distributing" it by way of sale?

[Dan]

I have taken it up with Microsoft and I receive no reply to that subject
although Microsoft seems willing to share ideas with me back and forth on
many topics but the issue of selling the 9x source code is not mentioned and
when asked about it the topic is ignored or the employee says they do not
know and all I am left with for my troubles is a big question mark and
nothing more. <???>

"MEB" wrote:

>
>
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
> | MEB, how come Microsoft does not sell the 9x source code to the U.S. or
> | Canadian or another friendly government if Microsoft is not willing to
> | program for the 9x source code anymore because it is too expensive for
> | Microsoft to program for 2 source codes from what I have read about the
> | situation. (Note: I feel and I think many here would agree with me that
> | Windows 9x consumer source code was best in Windows 98 Second Edition
> because
> | Windows ME removed easy access to MS-DOS and broke easy compatibility with
> | older programs --- heck --- Microsoft has a white page document that
> weighs
> | in over 100 pages on securing Windows 98 and Windows NT networks so it
> | certainly sounds like Microsoft cares a lot about their older IP that is
> | still in use by a few companies, some individuals and within some
> governments)
>
> Microsoft has or had many white papers and other related to the networking
> aspects < I still have many hundreds locally;, and is aware of the existance
> of the millions of users. And in reality, its not all that expensive to
> maintain it.. it just no longer brings in the revenue desired.
>
> As for why Microsoft retains its authority; you would have to take that up
> with Microsoft.
>
> --
> MEB
>
> --
> _________
>
>
>
>

[MEB[_2_]]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
| I have taken it up with Microsoft and I receive no reply to that subject
| although Microsoft seems willing to share ideas with me back and forth on
| many topics but the issue of selling the 9x source code is not mentioned
and
| when asked about it the topic is ignored or the employee says they do not
| know and all I am left with for my troubles is a big question mark and
| nothing more. <???>

Be aware that Microsoft has out sourced their Help and Support, so likely
they really have no way of knowing what Microsoft
administration/headquarters would do. They apparently haven't even got a
direct line/access to Microsoft or its divisions.
So you might want to question just who you actually are "talking to".

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________


|
| "MEB" wrote:
|
| >
| >
| > "Dan" > wrote in message
| > ...
| > | MEB, how come Microsoft does not sell the 9x source code to the U.S.
or
| > | Canadian or another friendly government if Microsoft is not willing to
| > | program for the 9x source code anymore because it is too expensive for
| > | Microsoft to program for 2 source codes from what I have read about
the
| > | situation. (Note: I feel and I think many here would agree with me
that
| > | Windows 9x consumer source code was best in Windows 98 Second Edition
| > because
| > | Windows ME removed easy access to MS-DOS and broke easy compatibility
with
| > | older programs --- heck --- Microsoft has a white page document that
| > weighs
| > | in over 100 pages on securing Windows 98 and Windows NT networks so it
| > | certainly sounds like Microsoft cares a lot about their older IP that
is
| > | still in use by a few companies, some individuals and within some
| > governments)
| >
| > Microsoft has or had many white papers and other related to the
networking
| > aspects < I still have many hundreds locally;, and is aware of the
existance
| > of the millions of users. And in reality, its not all that expensive to
| > maintain it.. it just no longer brings in the revenue desired.
| >
| > As for why Microsoft retains its authority; you would have to take that
up
| > with Microsoft.
| >
| > --
| > MEB
| >
| > --
| > _________
| >
| >
| >
| >

[MEB[_2_]]

"Normanny" > wrote in message
...
| Hi all,
| Thanks for all responses! I really should have been more clearer in my
| request in the first place that I need advise rather than a physical copy
of
| the W98se.
|
| When I started installing my Netgear modem on my laptop with a licensed
| W98se installed, there are dll's that are missing. I was hoping that
there
| are ways of getting this missing dll's by sending my request here.
|
| But, thanks anyway if there are none.
| Normanny.
|

The dlls MAY not actually be missing. Does this occur during the
installation process, when the installer tells you to insert the Win98 CD?
You MAY find that by directing to the system folder, the files are already
installed.

As others have suggested, search your local drives for the win98*.cab files
after setting Folder Options to Show Hidden Files and NOT Hide Known Files
Types, they MAY be somewhere on your drive.

As a last resort, there are several sites which have the individual DLLs
for download, however, make sure its a site you trust, AND that you check
them with your A-V program before using. You can also check them by using
Properties and reviewing Dates and Times of creation and modification, then
comparing them to known good files. Note however, that there are programs
which can modify those values.

If you post the intended installation version and model of card/adapter,
someone can monitor the actual needed files. Or if you already know what
those DLLs are other help can be offered.

--
MEB
a Peoples' counsel
--
_________

|
|
| "Normanny" wrote:
|
| > Hi, anyone can provide me a copy of the Windows 98 Second Edition. I
need to
| > upgrade my old Windows 98 and be able to install a Netgear 108 mbps
Wireless
| > PC Card. Appreciate any help!
| > --
| > normanny

[Dan]

Heck, I even wrote to Bill Gates several times about my ideas back in the day
and the letters were never answered and included my thoughts about Windows 98
Second Edition and the future direction Microsoft should take if Microsoft
was smart. I still think Microsoft saw the big dollar signs in the sky shall
we say and thought there was more money to make with catering to businesses
and their dollars and so consumers were left high and dry. Fortunately, now
Dan K.'s research has completely changed how the Internet was thought of and
you know what MEB there still is DNS Pollution out there and it is just that
the breaking of the 'Net has now been made much harder by patching.
Unfortunately, according to DHS there still seems to be a lot of unknown
status out there as far as DNS Pollution goes and I still think some
companies are not taking the issue seriously enough but after the company's
data are compromised then I think they may finally wake up. <smile>

"MEB" wrote:

>
>
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
> | I have taken it up with Microsoft and I receive no reply to that subject
> | although Microsoft seems willing to share ideas with me back and forth on
> | many topics but the issue of selling the 9x source code is not mentioned
> and
> | when asked about it the topic is ignored or the employee says they do not
> | know and all I am left with for my troubles is a big question mark and
> | nothing more. <???>
>
> Be aware that Microsoft has out sourced their Help and Support, so likely
> they really have no way of knowing what Microsoft
> administration/headquarters would do. They apparently haven't even got a
> direct line/access to Microsoft or its divisions.
> So you might want to question just who you actually are "talking to".
>
> --
> MEB
> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> --
> _________
>
>
> |
> | "MEB" wrote:
> |
> | >
> | >
> | > "Dan" > wrote in message
> | > ...
> | > | MEB, how come Microsoft does not sell the 9x source code to the U.S.
> or
> | > | Canadian or another friendly government if Microsoft is not willing to
> | > | program for the 9x source code anymore because it is too expensive for
> | > | Microsoft to program for 2 source codes from what I have read about
> the
> | > | situation. (Note: I feel and I think many here would agree with me
> that
> | > | Windows 9x consumer source code was best in Windows 98 Second Edition
> | > because
> | > | Windows ME removed easy access to MS-DOS and broke easy compatibility
> with
> | > | older programs --- heck --- Microsoft has a white page document that
> | > weighs
> | > | in over 100 pages on securing Windows 98 and Windows NT networks so it
> | > | certainly sounds like Microsoft cares a lot about their older IP that
> is
> | > | still in use by a few companies, some individuals and within some
> | > governments)
> | >
> | > Microsoft has or had many white papers and other related to the
> networking
> | > aspects < I still have many hundreds locally;, and is aware of the
> existance
> | > of the millions of users. And in reality, its not all that expensive to
> | > maintain it.. it just no longer brings in the revenue desired.
> | >
> | > As for why Microsoft retains its authority; you would have to take that
> up
> | > with Microsoft.
> | >
> | > --
> | > MEB
> | >
> | > --
> | > _________
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
>
>
>

[~BD~[_2_]]

Glen is 100% correct, Dan

Here is simple explanatory site which even 'wise Guy' should be able to comprehend:-
http://www.topmarks.co.uk/judaism/commandments/tencomms.htm

Note number 8!

Dave

--



"Dan" > wrote in message
...
> hmm, sure it wasn't 9 Glen, <grin>
>
> "glee" wrote:
>
>> #8.
>> --
>> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
>> http://dts-l.net/
<snip>

[~BD~[_2_]]

From the Back Cover
"Tom Brokaw has delivered a gift to this and future generations by bringing us these inspiring
personal stories of the average Joes, the GI Joes, the young men and women who served our country
and shaped the foundation of post-war America. Although some became famous, most returned to their
hometowns dedicated to building an even better world. We meet them in this book, whose pages give
voice to the standards they set by their strength of character, informed by their experience during
World War II. Tom has held up a mirror to reflect what may be their greatest legacy and pose in all
of us the question--Is this generation--our generation--worthy as their beneficiaries?"
--Steven Spielberg


From what she has written here, I'm confident that Angel IS a worthy beneficiary! :)))

Dave

--

[Gary S. Terhune[_2_]]

Again, and your response supports my contention, it was the "Greatest
Generation" that created the excesses of consumerism and capitalism, which
led to the Me Generation and its off-spring of today. Your selective memory
seems to not recall the excessive consumerism of the fifties, of that very
same "Greatest Generation" you so revere. It was certainly NOT the "hippies"
who created this society that you so roundly reject, but rather, just the
opposite. It was backlash against the consumerism of the Greatest Generation
that created the Hippies, who still live and are perhaps among the most
moral and honest, not to mention polite, Generation of this century.

FYI, the "hippies" still exist, and they're some of the most giving, most
polite and most generous of our sub-cultures. I know, I was one, still am
inside, and I've lived around them all my life. And some of the greatest
members of your own in-between generation, the Bohemians, but also the same
people who built NASA and developed computers, some of their best, were the
ones who created the Hippie movement.

No, what is caused the "breakdown" you're whining about is the natural
response against "polite" and "respectful" hypocrites who, just like Kennedy
and astronauts and their kin, were part of the "Greatest Generation". Only
what they got out of it was the meanest, crassest form of Capitalism yet,
and it is THAT mean, crass, unfettered and mostly Republican-led deregulated
capitalism that has led to today's societal despicable mores. Their
counter-parts, the "Politically Correct" pseudo-Hipppies, just as
capitalistic and just as lacking in true manners, have taken things to
extremes, also, and the backlash is just as much against them.

But there's hope. A lot of today's children and are out there on the front
lines, working to bring self-respect back to our society, and self-respect
is the only path toward respect for others.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"Bill in Co." > wrote in message
...
> No, it was the hippies. Sorry, I wasn't part and parcel of that
> "movement", and my values echo those of my parents, brought up during the
> Great Depression, not the Boomer set. I served during the Vietnam War,
> while they were getting high on acid.
>
> Gary S. Terhune wrote:
>> Ummm.... It was the Greatest Generation that created the society that you
>> so
>> demonize.
>>
>> Blame Frankenstein, not the monster.
>>
>> --
>> Gary S. Terhune
>> MS-MVP Shell/User
>> http://grystmill.com
>>
>> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Maybe you ought to read "The Greatest Generation", and get back to me on
>>> that. If you think personal values, and one's sense of personal
>>> responsibility
>>> and accountability, haven't changed much since then, then ....
>>>
>>> Angel wrote:
>>>> No, it wasn't.
>>>>
>>>> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Apparently my attempt at sarcasm was too subtle. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>>> Bill in Co.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Correction: Note below YOUR comment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Angel" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> Note Below
>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Buffalo,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe (98 Guy) knows more about computers, I am learning more
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> them every day. He seems to know NOTHING about Scruples, Morals
>>>>>>>>> and Integrity, or he just doesn't care about what the difference
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> between right and wrong.
>>>>>>>>> This subject has nothing to do with computer knowledge. This
>>>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>>>> the difference between right and wrong, scruples, morality and
>>>>>>>>> integrity,
>>>>>>>>> nothing else.
>>>>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "scruples, morality and integrity"??? Wrong era and wrong
>>>>>>>> generation for that! You old fogie, you!!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All I have to say about your comment is: Do, Write and Say unto
>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>> AS you would want them to Do, Write and Say to you. It would be a
>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>> world if everyone believed and did this. Scruples, morality and
>>>>>>> integrity has
>>>>>>> NEVER been connected with era or generation. It has never gone out
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> style.
>>>>>>> Of course, there is nothing that would change your mind if you had
>>>>>>> your mind
>>>>>>> set on "wrong era and wrong generation" no matter what. Anyway, you
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> not know what generation I am from, this may give you a hint: I go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> University
>>>>>>> classes. Right now, I am taking Philosophy classes. Maybe you should
>>>>>>> be going to those classes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Buffalo" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> . ..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Buffalo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Dan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? he
>>>>>>>>>>>>> he is in for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all" and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> no matter what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what! He is just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And who might you just be??
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> She is Angel.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, Duh? :) I think he (98 Guy) knows a hell of a lot more
>>>>>>>>>> about Win98 and computers than Angel.
>
>

[Gary S. Terhune[_2_]]

Wanna bet?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"~BD~" > wrote in message
...
<SNIP>
> Here is simple explanatory site which even 'wise Guy' should be able to
> comprehend:-
<SNIP>

[Buffalo]

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> Again, and your response supports my contention, it was the "Greatest
> Generation" that created the excesses of consumerism and capitalism,
> which led to the Me Generation and its off-spring of today. Your
> selective memory seems to not recall the excessive consumerism of the
> fifties, of that very same "Greatest Generation" you so revere. It
> was certainly NOT the "hippies" who created this society that you so
> roundly reject, but rather, just the opposite. It was backlash
> against the consumerism of the Greatest Generation that created the
> Hippies, who still live and are perhaps among the most moral and
> honest, not to mention polite, Generation of this century.
>
> FYI, the "hippies" still exist, and they're some of the most giving,
> most polite and most generous of our sub-cultures. I know, I was one,
> still am inside, and I've lived around them all my life. And some of
> the greatest members of your own in-between generation, the
> Bohemians, but also the same people who built NASA and developed
> computers, some of their best, were the ones who created the Hippie
> movement.
>
> No, what is caused the "breakdown" you're whining about is the natural
> response against "polite" and "respectful" hypocrites who, just like
> Kennedy and astronauts and their kin, were part of the "Greatest
> Generation". Only what they got out of it was the meanest, crassest
> form of Capitalism yet, and it is THAT mean, crass, unfettered and
> mostly Republican-led deregulated capitalism that has led to today's
> societal despicable mores. Their counter-parts, the "Politically
> Correct" pseudo-Hipppies, just as capitalistic and just as lacking in
> true manners, have taken things to extremes, also, and the backlash
> is just as much against them.
>
> But there's hope. A lot of today's children and are out there on the
> front lines, working to bring self-respect back to our society, and
> self-respect is the only path toward respect for others.

Wow, a Hippie!! The above is very well written and an interesting
perspective about the country.
Well done.

[~BD~[_2_]]

:))) No Sir!

........ although you may have noted that he did not embark (no pun intended!) on an argument to
change the rules within the International Maritime Organization (IMO) which was raised earlier in
this group!

Dave

--
"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message ...
> Wanna bet?
>
> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS-MVP Shell/User
> http://grystmill.com
>
> "~BD~" > wrote in message ...
> <SNIP>
>> Here is simple explanatory site which even 'wise Guy' should be able to comprehend:-
> <SNIP>
>
>

[Bill in Co.]

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> Again, and your response supports my contention, it was the "Greatest
> Generation" that created the excesses of consumerism and capitalism, which
> led to the Me Generation and its off-spring of today. Your selective
> memory
> seems to not recall the excessive consumerism of the fifties, of that very
> same "Greatest Generation" you so revere. It was certainly NOT the
> "hippies"
> who created this society that you so roundly reject, but rather, just the
> opposite. It was backlash against the consumerism of the Greatest
> Generation
> that created the Hippies, who still live and are perhaps among the most
> moral and honest, not to mention polite, Generation of this century.
>
> FYI, the "hippies" still exist, and they're some of the most giving, most
> polite and most generous of our sub-cultures. I know, I was one, still am
> inside, and I've lived around them all my life. And some of the greatest
> members of your own in-between generation, the Bohemians, but also the
> same
> people who built NASA and developed computers, some of their best, were
> the
> ones who created the Hippie movement.
>
> No, what is caused the "breakdown" you're whining about is the natural
> response against "polite" and "respectful" hypocrites who, just like
> Kennedy
> and astronauts and their kin, were part of the "Greatest Generation". Only
> what they got out of it was the meanest, crassest form of Capitalism yet,
> and it is THAT mean, crass, unfettered and mostly Republican-led
> deregulated
> capitalism that has led to today's societal despicable mores. Their
> counter-parts, the "Politically Correct" pseudo-Hipppies, just as
> capitalistic and just as lacking in true manners, have taken things to
> extremes, also, and the backlash is just as much against them.
>
> But there's hope. A lot of today's children and are out there on the front
> lines, working to bring self-respect back to our society, and self-respect
> is the only path toward respect for others.

There MAY be hope, if Obama gets elected. But even so, I wouldn't bank on
it.
The societal problem is just too systemic today, with so many just blaming
each other for their own lack of personal responsibility and accountability
(and using lawyers to "solve" every instance of any problem).

Gotta keep our "priorities" straight, don't ya know? (snort). How many TWO
parent homes do we have today? What about the loss of neighborhoods ("it
takes a village")? Why are prisons being built faster than schools,
today? And what about the days when a handshake was all that was needed,
and, one's word was one bond? Alas, they are pretty much Gone With The
Wind..... Distant memories off the horizon.


> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS-MVP Shell/User
> http://grystmill.com
>
> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
> ...
>> No, it was the hippies. Sorry, I wasn't part and parcel of that
>> "movement", and my values echo those of my parents, brought up during the
>> Great Depression, not the Boomer set. I served during the Vietnam War,
>> while they were getting high on acid.
>>
>> Gary S. Terhune wrote:
>>> Ummm.... It was the Greatest Generation that created the society that
>>> you
>>> so
>>> demonize.
>>>
>>> Blame Frankenstein, not the monster.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gary S. Terhune
>>> MS-MVP Shell/User
>>> http://grystmill.com
>>>
>>> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Maybe you ought to read "The Greatest Generation", and get back to me
>>>> on
>>>> that. If you think personal values, and one's sense of personal
>>>> responsibility
>>>> and accountability, haven't changed much since then, then ....
>>>>
>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>> No, it wasn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Apparently my attempt at sarcasm was too subtle. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>>>> Bill in Co.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correction: Note below YOUR comment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Angel" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> Note Below
>>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Buffalo,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe (98 Guy) knows more about computers, I am learning more
>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> them every day. He seems to know NOTHING about Scruples, Morals
>>>>>>>>>> and Integrity, or he just doesn't care about what the difference
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> between right and wrong.
>>>>>>>>>> This subject has nothing to do with computer knowledge. This
>>>>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>>>>> the difference between right and wrong, scruples, morality and
>>>>>>>>>> integrity,
>>>>>>>>>> nothing else.
>>>>>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "scruples, morality and integrity"??? Wrong era and wrong
>>>>>>>>> generation for that! You old fogie, you!!!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All I have to say about your comment is: Do, Write and Say unto
>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>> AS you would want them to Do, Write and Say to you. It would be a
>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>> world if everyone believed and did this. Scruples, morality and
>>>>>>>> integrity has
>>>>>>>> NEVER been connected with era or generation. It has never gone out
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> style.
>>>>>>>> Of course, there is nothing that would change your mind if you had
>>>>>>>> your mind
>>>>>>>> set on "wrong era and wrong generation" no matter what. Anyway, you
>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>> not know what generation I am from, this may give you a hint: I go
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> University
>>>>>>>> classes. Right now, I am taking Philosophy classes. Maybe you
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> be going to those classes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Buffalo" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> . ..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Buffalo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Dan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have just asked "98 Guy" the same question I was going to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He checked ONLY 1/3rd of the downloaded Pirated Win98SE? he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he is in for a great surprise!! Of course, he is a "know it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all" and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no matter what. In his own opinion, he is never wrong no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what! He is just a Troll! looking for someone to pick on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And who might you just be??
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> She is Angel.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, Duh? :) I think he (98 Guy) knows a hell of a lot more
>>>>>>>>>>> about Win98 and computers than Angel.

[Buffalo]

Bill in Co. wrote:
>
> There MAY be hope, if Obama gets elected. But even so, I wouldn't
> bank on it.
> The societal problem is just too systemic today, with so many just
> blaming each other for their own lack of personal responsibility and
> accountability (and using lawyers to "solve" every instance of any
> problem).

If some city in the USA got nuked, the phone lines would be totally tied up.
Why? Because of all the people calling their lawyers. :)
If the Republicans and Democrats spent even 1/2 as much time doing something
to improve the USA as they do fighting each other, we would be much better
off.


> Gotta keep our "priorities" straight, don't ya know? (snort). How
> many TWO parent homes do we have today? What about the loss of
> neighborhoods ("it takes a village")? Why are prisons being built
> faster than schools, today? And what about the days when a
> handshake was all that was needed, and, one's word was one bond?
> Alas, they are pretty much Gone With The Wind..... Distant
> memories off the horizon.

It's called ignorance, capitalism, greed and most importantly, I am the most
important thing in this world. :(

[Bill in Co.]

Buffalo wrote:
> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>
>> There MAY be hope, if Obama gets elected. But even so, I wouldn't
>> bank on it.
>> The societal problem is just too systemic today, with so many just
>> blaming each other for their own lack of personal responsibility and
>> accountability (and using lawyers to "solve" every instance of any
>> problem).
>
> If some city in the USA got nuked, the phone lines would be totally tied
> up.
> Why? Because of all the people calling their lawyers. :)
> If the Republicans and Democrats spent even 1/2 as much time doing
> something
> to improve the USA as they do fighting each other, we would be much better
> off.
>
>
>> Gotta keep our "priorities" straight, don't ya know? (snort). How
>> many TWO parent homes do we have today? What about the loss of
>> neighborhoods ("it takes a village")? Why are prisons being built
>> faster than schools, today? And what about the days when a
>> handshake was all that was needed, and, one's word was one's bond?
>> Alas, they are pretty much ... Gone With The Wind.... Distant
>> memories, now gone off the horizon.
>
> It's called ignorance, capitalism, greed and most importantly, I am the
> most
> important thing in this world. :(

Yup. That's just about where we are are now, and, like a few in "Tuck
Everlasting", I'm kinda glad my lifetime here is limited.

[Dan]

Thanks Dave for the correction.

"~BD~" wrote:

> Glen is 100% correct, Dan
>
> Here is simple explanatory site which even 'wise Guy' should be able to comprehend:-
> http://www.topmarks.co.uk/judaism/commandments/tencomms.htm
>
> Note number 8!
>
> Dave
>
> --
>
>
>
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > hmm, sure it wasn't 9 Glen, <grin>
> >
> > "glee" wrote:
> >
> >> #8.
> >> --
> >> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
> >> http://dts-l.net/
> <snip>
>
>
>

[~BD~[_2_]]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks Dave for the correction.

:) This was meant to be light-hearted, albeit with serious undertones (for 98 Guy anyway!)

Maybe you can help me. I posted a message in the Microsoft security group earlier this morning in
'your' Source Code thread. When I checked just now (using Outlook Express) the message header had a
line scored through it and in the message box it said the message is no longer available on the
server.

Have you ever seen this happen before? Any idea why it might happen?

It is, however, still showing on Google Groups. I repeat it here:-

(It was in response to FromTheRafters who said ....... )

"The transmission is textual - the protocol has no issues I am
aware of. Any security risk would probably be in the extensions
that allow this textual data to 'contain' malware - similar to the
e-mail protocols".

*

*


Hmmm! <stroking chin!>

What about when 'pictures' or photographs are included (including screenshots) - there's a term for
that which escapes me right now! In other words, not in 'plain text'.


I once received a 'screenshot' as an email attachment (I'd asked for it to be sent to me). I opened
the 'picture' (jpeg I think) and all seemed fine.


I then opened the file with Notepad (I do crazy things like that!). Wow! Inside that file, above
all the 'gobbledegook' one might expect, were *live* links to all manner of web pages ,,,,,,,, of
course I went and looked! <grin>


During my experimentation over the years, I've seen lots of SPAM (advertising the likes of Viagra
and Jewelry) - every one of those links shown in Notepad was, I'm certain, taking me to a SPAM site!


I''ve been told that is impossible ........... yet I saw it with my own eyes! So there!


Any thoughts?


Dave


--

[Gary S. Terhune[_2_]]

All kinds of stuff gets immediately rejected or filtered out soon after it
gets posts to the MS server. There is generally no rhyme no reason for it.
Fact is, nobody is in charge of the MS news servers. What there *is* is an
ad hoc group of people with differing and sometimes ridiculous ideas about
how to block SPAM and "objectionable" material, whatever they decide that
is.
--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"~BD~" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Thanks Dave for the correction.
>
> :) This was meant to be light-hearted, albeit with serious undertones
> (for 98 Guy anyway!)
>
> Maybe you can help me. I posted a message in the Microsoft security group
> earlier this morning in 'your' Source Code thread. When I checked just now
> (using Outlook Express) the message header had a line scored through it
> and in the message box it said the message is no longer available on the
> server.
>
> Have you ever seen this happen before? Any idea why it might happen?
>
> It is, however, still showing on Google Groups. I repeat it here:-
>
> (It was in response to FromTheRafters who said ....... )
>
> "The transmission is textual - the protocol has no issues I am
> aware of. Any security risk would probably be in the extensions
> that allow this textual data to 'contain' malware - similar to the
> e-mail protocols".
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> Hmmm! <stroking chin!>
>
> What about when 'pictures' or photographs are included (including
> screenshots) - there's a term for
> that which escapes me right now! In other words, not in 'plain text'.
>
>
> I once received a 'screenshot' as an email attachment (I'd asked for it to
> be sent to me). I opened
> the 'picture' (jpeg I think) and all seemed fine.
>
>
> I then opened the file with Notepad (I do crazy things like that!). Wow!
> Inside that file, above
> all the 'gobbledegook' one might expect, were *live* links to all manner
> of web pages ,,,,,,,, of
> course I went and looked! <grin>
>
>
> During my experimentation over the years, I've seen lots of SPAM
> (advertising the likes of Viagra
> and Jewelry) - every one of those links shown in Notepad was, I'm certain,
> taking me to a SPAM site!
>
>
> I''ve been told that is impossible ........... yet I saw it with my own
> eyes! So there!
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> --
>
>

[~BD~[_2_]]

> "~BD~" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Dan" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Thanks Dave for the correction.
>>
>> :) This was meant to be light-hearted, albeit with serious undertones (for 98 Guy anyway!)
>>
>> Maybe you can help me. I posted a message in the Microsoft security group earlier this morning in
>> 'your' Source Code thread. When I checked just now (using Outlook Express) the message header had
>> a line scored through it and in the message box it said the message is no longer available on the
>> server.
>>
>> Have you ever seen this happen before? Any idea why it might happen?
>>
>> It is, however, still showing on Google Groups. I repeat it here:-
>>
>> (It was in response to FromTheRafters who said ....... )
>>
>> "The transmission is textual - the protocol has no issues I am
>> aware of. Any security risk would probably be in the extensions
>> that allow this textual data to 'contain' malware - similar to the
>> e-mail protocols".
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> Hmmm! <stroking chin!>
>>
>> What about when 'pictures' or photographs are included (including screenshots) - there's a term
>> for
>> that which escapes me right now! In other words, not in 'plain text'.
>>
>>
>> I once received a 'screenshot' as an email attachment (I'd asked for it to be sent to me). I
>> opened
>> the 'picture' (jpeg I think) and all seemed fine.
>>
>>
>> I then opened the file with Notepad (I do crazy things like that!). Wow! Inside that file, above
>> all the 'gobbledegook' one might expect, were *live* links to all manner of web pages ,,,,,,,, of
>> course I went and looked! <grin>
>>
>>
>> During my experimentation over the years, I've seen lots of SPAM (advertising the likes of Viagra
>> and Jewelry) - every one of those links shown in Notepad was, I'm certain, taking me to a SPAM
>> site!
>>
>>
>> I''ve been told that is impossible ........... yet I saw it with my own eyes! So there!
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> --


"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message ...
> All kinds of stuff gets immediately rejected or filtered out soon after it gets posts to the MS
> server. There is generally no rhyme no reason for it. Fact is, nobody is in charge of the MS news
> servers. What there *is* is an ad hoc group of people with differing and sometimes ridiculous
> ideas about how to block SPAM and "objectionable" material, whatever they decide that is.
> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS-MVP Shell/User
> http://grystmill.com


Gary - thanks for taking the time and trouble to respond. I've come to respect your expertise and
attitude. Thanks.

It took me a fair while to appreciate that the MS news servers were divorced from Microsoft itself
and that there is no moderation here, in general terms anyway. I'm quite certain that a very high
percentage of folk visiting the groups do so out of desperation - I know I did! I must have been
using Outlook Express for about 8 years before I became aware that it could be used for
participating in newsgroups in addition to use for email! Doh!

I have, though, always assumed that Microsoft funds the cost of running the servers. Can you confirm
that that is so? I did once question why there are two active servers - news.microsoft.com AND
msnews.microsoft.com. A historical 'quirk' I believe I was told.

I'm uncertain if you read right through my post. Have you any understanding of *how* live links to
web sites could be 'hidden' within a jpeg file? I'm happy for you to email me if you would prefer so
to do. Just let me know here and I'll give you my address. TIA

In the meantime, I'll try posting my message to FTR again and see what happens this time!

Dave

Dave

--

[Dan]

I would imagine their are two newsgroup servers so if one goes down for
maintenance or becomes disrupted for any reason then posters can still post
at Microsoft newsgroups because there is another server but this is just a
guess on my part.

"~BD~" wrote:

>
> > "~BD~" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Dan" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> Thanks Dave for the correction.
> >>
> >> :) This was meant to be light-hearted, albeit with serious undertones (for 98 Guy anyway!)
> >>
> >> Maybe you can help me. I posted a message in the Microsoft security group earlier this morning in
> >> 'your' Source Code thread. When I checked just now (using Outlook Express) the message header had
> >> a line scored through it and in the message box it said the message is no longer available on the
> >> server.
> >>
> >> Have you ever seen this happen before? Any idea why it might happen?
> >>
> >> It is, however, still showing on Google Groups. I repeat it here:-
> >>
> >> (It was in response to FromTheRafters who said ....... )
> >>
> >> "The transmission is textual - the protocol has no issues I am
> >> aware of. Any security risk would probably be in the extensions
> >> that allow this textual data to 'contain' malware - similar to the
> >> e-mail protocols".
> >>
> >> *
> >>
> >> *
> >>
> >>
> >> Hmmm! <stroking chin!>
> >>
> >> What about when 'pictures' or photographs are included (including screenshots) - there's a term
> >> for
> >> that which escapes me right now! In other words, not in 'plain text'.
> >>
> >>
> >> I once received a 'screenshot' as an email attachment (I'd asked for it to be sent to me). I
> >> opened
> >> the 'picture' (jpeg I think) and all seemed fine.
> >>
> >>
> >> I then opened the file with Notepad (I do crazy things like that!). Wow! Inside that file, above
> >> all the 'gobbledegook' one might expect, were *live* links to all manner of web pages ,,,,,,,, of
> >> course I went and looked! <grin>
> >>
> >>
> >> During my experimentation over the years, I've seen lots of SPAM (advertising the likes of Viagra
> >> and Jewelry) - every one of those links shown in Notepad was, I'm certain, taking me to a SPAM
> >> site!
> >>
> >>
> >> I''ve been told that is impossible ........... yet I saw it with my own eyes! So there!
> >>
> >>
> >> Any thoughts?
> >>
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >> --
>
>
> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message ...
> > All kinds of stuff gets immediately rejected or filtered out soon after it gets posts to the MS
> > server. There is generally no rhyme no reason for it. Fact is, nobody is in charge of the MS news
> > servers. What there *is* is an ad hoc group of people with differing and sometimes ridiculous
> > ideas about how to block SPAM and "objectionable" material, whatever they decide that is.
> > --
> > Gary S. Terhune
> > MS-MVP Shell/User
> > http://grystmill.com
>
>
> Gary - thanks for taking the time and trouble to respond. I've come to respect your expertise and
> attitude. Thanks.
>
> It took me a fair while to appreciate that the MS news servers were divorced from Microsoft itself
> and that there is no moderation here, in general terms anyway. I'm quite certain that a very high
> percentage of folk visiting the groups do so out of desperation - I know I did! I must have been
> using Outlook Express for about 8 years before I became aware that it could be used for
> participating in newsgroups in addition to use for email! Doh!
>
> I have, though, always assumed that Microsoft funds the cost of running the servers. Can you confirm
> that that is so? I did once question why there are two active servers - news.microsoft.com AND
> msnews.microsoft.com. A historical 'quirk' I believe I was told.
>
> I'm uncertain if you read right through my post. Have you any understanding of *how* live links to
> web sites could be 'hidden' within a jpeg file? I'm happy for you to email me if you would prefer so
> to do. Just let me know here and I'll give you my address. TIA
>
> In the meantime, I'll try posting my message to FTR again and see what happens this time!
>
> Dave
>
> Dave
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>

[MEB[_2_]]

"~BD~" > wrote in message
...
|
| > "~BD~" > wrote in message
| > ...
| >>
| >> "Dan" > wrote in message
| >> ...
| >>> Thanks Dave for the correction.
| >>
| >> :) This was meant to be light-hearted, albeit with serious undertones
(for 98 Guy anyway!)
| >>
| >> Maybe you can help me. I posted a message in the Microsoft security
group earlier this morning in
| >> 'your' Source Code thread. When I checked just now (using Outlook
Express) the message header had
| >> a line scored through it and in the message box it said the message is
no longer available on the
| >> server.
| >>
| >> Have you ever seen this happen before? Any idea why it might happen?
| >>
| >> It is, however, still showing on Google Groups. I repeat it here:-
| >>
| >> (It was in response to FromTheRafters who said ....... )
| >>
| >> "The transmission is textual - the protocol has no issues I am
| >> aware of. Any security risk would probably be in the extensions
| >> that allow this textual data to 'contain' malware - similar to the
| >> e-mail protocols".
| >>
| >> *
| >>
| >> *
| >>
| >>
| >> Hmmm! <stroking chin!>
| >>
| >> What about when 'pictures' or photographs are included (including
screenshots) - there's a term
| >> for
| >> that which escapes me right now! In other words, not in 'plain text'.
| >>
| >>
| >> I once received a 'screenshot' as an email attachment (I'd asked for it
to be sent to me). I
| >> opened
| >> the 'picture' (jpeg I think) and all seemed fine.
| >>
| >>
| >> I then opened the file with Notepad (I do crazy things like that!).
Wow! Inside that file, above
| >> all the 'gobbledegook' one might expect, were *live* links to all
manner of web pages ,,,,,,,, of
| >> course I went and looked! <grin>
| >>
| >>
| >> During my experimentation over the years, I've seen lots of SPAM
(advertising the likes of Viagra
| >> and Jewelry) - every one of those links shown in Notepad was, I'm
certain, taking me to a SPAM
| >> site!
| >>
| >>
| >> I''ve been told that is impossible ........... yet I saw it with my own
eyes! So there!
| >>
| >>
| >> Any thoughts?
| >>
| >>
| >> Dave
| >>
| >>
| >> --
|
|
| "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
...
| > All kinds of stuff gets immediately rejected or filtered out soon after
it gets posts to the MS
| > server. There is generally no rhyme no reason for it. Fact is, nobody is
in charge of the MS news
| > servers. What there *is* is an ad hoc group of people with differing and
sometimes ridiculous
| > ideas about how to block SPAM and "objectionable" material, whatever
they decide that is.
| > --
| > Gary S. Terhune
| > MS-MVP Shell/User
| > http://grystmill.com
|
|
| Gary - thanks for taking the time and trouble to respond. I've come to
respect your expertise and
| attitude. Thanks.
|
| It took me a fair while to appreciate that the MS news servers were
divorced from Microsoft itself
| and that there is no moderation here, in general terms anyway. I'm quite
certain that a very high
| percentage of folk visiting the groups do so out of desperation - I know I
did! I must have been
| using Outlook Express for about 8 years before I became aware that it
could be used for
| participating in newsgroups in addition to use for email! Doh!
|
| I have, though, always assumed that Microsoft funds the cost of running
the servers. Can you confirm
| that that is so? I did once question why there are two active servers -
news.microsoft.com AND
| msnews.microsoft.com. A historical 'quirk' I believe I was told.
|
| I'm uncertain if you read right through my post. Have you any
understanding of *how* live links to
| web sites could be 'hidden' within a jpeg file? I'm happy for you to email
me if you would prefer so
| to do. Just let me know here and I'll give you my address. TIA
|
| In the meantime, I'll try posting my message to FTR again and see what
happens this time!
|
| Dave
|
| Dave
|
| --

The JPEG/JGP issue was a matter of concern [and still is] several years ago
with numerous sites related and discussions in the forums. One could
reasonably state that the/those format(s) has(have) been used successfully
to do exactly as you indicate.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=JPEG+used+to+hack&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=JPEG+vulnerability&btnG=Search


--
MEB
a Peoples' counsel
--
_________

[~BD~[_2_]]

"MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message ...
>
>
> "~BD~" > wrote in message
> ...
> |
> | > "~BD~" > wrote in message
> | > ...
> | >>
> | >> "Dan" > wrote in message
> | >> ...
> | >>> Thanks Dave for the correction.
> | >>
> | >> :) This was meant to be light-hearted, albeit with serious undertones
> (for 98 Guy anyway!)
> | >>
> | >> Maybe you can help me. I posted a message in the Microsoft security
> group earlier this morning in
> | >> 'your' Source Code thread. When I checked just now (using Outlook
> Express) the message header had
> | >> a line scored through it and in the message box it said the message is
> no longer available on the
> | >> server.
> | >>
> | >> Have you ever seen this happen before? Any idea why it might happen?
> | >>
> | >> It is, however, still showing on Google Groups. I repeat it here:-
> | >>
> | >> (It was in response to FromTheRafters who said ....... )
> | >>
> | >> "The transmission is textual - the protocol has no issues I am
> | >> aware of. Any security risk would probably be in the extensions
> | >> that allow this textual data to 'contain' malware - similar to the
> | >> e-mail protocols".
> | >>
> | >> *
> | >>
> | >> *
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> Hmmm! <stroking chin!>
> | >>
> | >> What about when 'pictures' or photographs are included (including
> screenshots) - there's a term
> | >> for
> | >> that which escapes me right now! In other words, not in 'plain text'.
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> I once received a 'screenshot' as an email attachment (I'd asked for it
> to be sent to me). I
> | >> opened
> | >> the 'picture' (jpeg I think) and all seemed fine.
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> I then opened the file with Notepad (I do crazy things like that!).
> Wow! Inside that file, above
> | >> all the 'gobbledegook' one might expect, were *live* links to all
> manner of web pages ,,,,,,,, of
> | >> course I went and looked! <grin>
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> During my experimentation over the years, I've seen lots of SPAM
> (advertising the likes of Viagra
> | >> and Jewelry) - every one of those links shown in Notepad was, I'm
> certain, taking me to a SPAM
> | >> site!
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> I''ve been told that is impossible ........... yet I saw it with my own
> eyes! So there!
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> Any thoughts?
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> Dave
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> --
> |
> |
> | "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
> ...
> | > All kinds of stuff gets immediately rejected or filtered out soon after
> it gets posts to the MS
> | > server. There is generally no rhyme no reason for it. Fact is, nobody is
> in charge of the MS news
> | > servers. What there *is* is an ad hoc group of people with differing and
> sometimes ridiculous
> | > ideas about how to block SPAM and "objectionable" material, whatever
> they decide that is.
> | > --
> | > Gary S. Terhune
> | > MS-MVP Shell/User
> | > http://grystmill.com
> |
> |
> | Gary - thanks for taking the time and trouble to respond. I've come to
> respect your expertise and
> | attitude. Thanks.
> |
> | It took me a fair while to appreciate that the MS news servers were
> divorced from Microsoft itself
> | and that there is no moderation here, in general terms anyway. I'm quite
> certain that a very high
> | percentage of folk visiting the groups do so out of desperation - I know I
> did! I must have been
> | using Outlook Express for about 8 years before I became aware that it
> could be used for
> | participating in newsgroups in addition to use for email! Doh!
> |
> | I have, though, always assumed that Microsoft funds the cost of running
> the servers. Can you confirm
> | that that is so? I did once question why there are two active servers -
> news.microsoft.com AND
> | msnews.microsoft.com. A historical 'quirk' I believe I was told.
> |
> | I'm uncertain if you read right through my post. Have you any
> understanding of *how* live links to
> | web sites could be 'hidden' within a jpeg file? I'm happy for you to email
> me if you would prefer so
> | to do. Just let me know here and I'll give you my address. TIA
> |
> | In the meantime, I'll try posting my message to FTR again and see what
> happens this time!
> |
> | Dave
> |
> | Dave
> |
> | --
>
> The JPEG/JGP issue was a matter of concern [and still is] several years ago
> with numerous sites related and discussions in the forums. One could
> reasonably state that the/those format(s) has(have) been used successfully
> to do exactly as you indicate.
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=JPEG+used+to+hack&btnG=Search
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=JPEG+vulnerability&btnG=Search
>
>
> --
> MEB
> a Peoples' counsel
> --
> _________
>
>
>

Thank you so much for your reply MEB.

I'll spend some time reviewing those Google leads you have so kindly provided.

Dave

PS My post to FTR has 'stuck' this time!

--

[Tim Slattery]

"~BD~" > wrote:

>I have, though, always assumed that Microsoft funds the cost of running the servers. Can you confirm
>that that is so? I did once question why there are two active servers - news.microsoft.com AND
>msnews.microsoft.com. A historical 'quirk' I believe I was told.

The servers belong to Microsoft, they contract out the actual running
of them. There's only one server address, both domain names resolve to
the same IP address.

--
Tim Slattery
MS MVP(Shell/User)

http://members.cox.net/slatteryt

[MEB[_2_]]

Posted this in the wrong discussion, my bad..

I should have added: The formats defined as JPEG/JPG [among a few other
formats] also allow the creator/author and other {identifying} information
to be included within the formats.
Web based images generally contain these types of information as well what I
previously indicated could POSSIBLY be included.
*Image search/indexing spiders* will/could access this information
increasing presence and other for the originators, and for tracking of their
usage.

--
MEB
a Peoples' counsel

--

"MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
...
|
|
| "~BD~" > wrote in message
| ...
| |
| | > "~BD~" > wrote in message
| | > ...
| | >>
| | >> "Dan" > wrote in message
| | >> ...
| | >>> Thanks Dave for the correction.
| | >>
| | >> :) This was meant to be light-hearted, albeit with serious
undertones
| (for 98 Guy anyway!)
| | >>
| | >> Maybe you can help me. I posted a message in the Microsoft security
| group earlier this morning in
| | >> 'your' Source Code thread. When I checked just now (using Outlook
| Express) the message header had
| | >> a line scored through it and in the message box it said the message
is
| no longer available on the
| | >> server.
| | >>
| | >> Have you ever seen this happen before? Any idea why it might happen?
| | >>
| | >> It is, however, still showing on Google Groups. I repeat it here:-
| | >>
| | >> (It was in response to FromTheRafters who said ....... )
| | >>
| | >> "The transmission is textual - the protocol has no issues I am
| | >> aware of. Any security risk would probably be in the extensions
| | >> that allow this textual data to 'contain' malware - similar to the
| | >> e-mail protocols".
| | >>
| | >> *
| | >>
| | >> *
| | >>
| | >>
| | >> Hmmm! <stroking chin!>
| | >>
| | >> What about when 'pictures' or photographs are included (including
| screenshots) - there's a term
| | >> for
| | >> that which escapes me right now! In other words, not in 'plain text'.
| | >>
| | >>
| | >> I once received a 'screenshot' as an email attachment (I'd asked for
it
| to be sent to me). I
| | >> opened
| | >> the 'picture' (jpeg I think) and all seemed fine.
| | >>
| | >>
| | >> I then opened the file with Notepad (I do crazy things like that!).
| Wow! Inside that file, above
| | >> all the 'gobbledegook' one might expect, were *live* links to all
| manner of web pages ,,,,,,,, of
| | >> course I went and looked! <grin>
| | >>
| | >>
| | >> During my experimentation over the years, I've seen lots of SPAM
| (advertising the likes of Viagra
| | >> and Jewelry) - every one of those links shown in Notepad was, I'm
| certain, taking me to a SPAM
| | >> site!
| | >>
| | >>
| | >> I''ve been told that is impossible ........... yet I saw it with my
own
| eyes! So there!
| | >>
| | >>
| | >> Any thoughts?
| | >>
| | >>
| | >> Dave
| | >>
| | >>
| | >> --
| |
| |
| | "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
| ...
| | > All kinds of stuff gets immediately rejected or filtered out soon
after
| it gets posts to the MS
| | > server. There is generally no rhyme no reason for it. Fact is, nobody
is
| in charge of the MS news
| | > servers. What there *is* is an ad hoc group of people with differing
and
| sometimes ridiculous
| | > ideas about how to block SPAM and "objectionable" material, whatever
| they decide that is.
| | > --
| | > Gary S. Terhune
| | > MS-MVP Shell/User
| | > http://grystmill.com
| |
| |
| | Gary - thanks for taking the time and trouble to respond. I've come to
| respect your expertise and
| | attitude. Thanks.
| |
| | It took me a fair while to appreciate that the MS news servers were
| divorced from Microsoft itself
| | and that there is no moderation here, in general terms anyway. I'm quite
| certain that a very high
| | percentage of folk visiting the groups do so out of desperation - I know
I
| did! I must have been
| | using Outlook Express for about 8 years before I became aware that it
| could be used for
| | participating in newsgroups in addition to use for email! Doh!
| |
| | I have, though, always assumed that Microsoft funds the cost of running
| the servers. Can you confirm
| | that that is so? I did once question why there are two active servers -
| news.microsoft.com AND
| | msnews.microsoft.com. A historical 'quirk' I believe I was told.
| |
| | I'm uncertain if you read right through my post. Have you any
| understanding of *how* live links to
| | web sites could be 'hidden' within a jpeg file? I'm happy for you to
email
| me if you would prefer so
| | to do. Just let me know here and I'll give you my address. TIA
| |
| | In the meantime, I'll try posting my message to FTR again and see what
| happens this time!
| |
| | Dave
| |
| | Dave
| |
| | --
|
| The JPEG/JGP issue was a matter of concern [and still is] several years
ago
| with numerous sites related and discussions in the forums. One could
| reasonably state that the/those format(s) has(have) been used successfully
| to do exactly as you indicate.
|
| http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=JPEG+used+to+hack&btnG=Search
| http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=JPEG+vulnerability&btnG=Search
|
|
| --
| MEB
| a Peoples' counsel
| --
| _________
|
|
|

[~BD~[_2_]]

"Tim Slattery" > wrote in message
...
> "~BD~" > wrote:
>
>>I have, though, always assumed that Microsoft funds the cost of running the servers. Can you
>>confirm
>>that that is so? I did once question why there are two active servers - news.microsoft.com AND
>>msnews.microsoft.com. A historical 'quirk' I believe I was told.
>
> The servers belong to Microsoft, they contract out the actual running
> of them. There's only one server address, both domain names resolve to
> the same IP address.
>
> --
> Tim Slattery
> MS MVP(Shell/User)
>
> http://members.cox.net/slatteryt


Thank you, Tim.

I guess it follows that Microsoft picks up the tab! ;)

Dave

--

[FromTheRafters]

http://everything2.com/?node_id=1367818


"MEB" <meb@not > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "~BD~" > wrote in message
> ...
> |
> | > "~BD~" > wrote in message
> | > ...
> | >>
> | >> "Dan" > wrote in message
> | >> ...
> | >>> Thanks Dave for the correction.
> | >>
> | >> :) This was meant to be light-hearted, albeit with serious
> undertones
> (for 98 Guy anyway!)
> | >>
> | >> Maybe you can help me. I posted a message in the Microsoft security
> group earlier this morning in
> | >> 'your' Source Code thread. When I checked just now (using Outlook
> Express) the message header had
> | >> a line scored through it and in the message box it said the message
> is
> no longer available on the
> | >> server.
> | >>
> | >> Have you ever seen this happen before? Any idea why it might happen?
> | >>
> | >> It is, however, still showing on Google Groups. I repeat it here:-
> | >>
> | >> (It was in response to FromTheRafters who said ....... )
> | >>
> | >> "The transmission is textual - the protocol has no issues I am
> | >> aware of. Any security risk would probably be in the extensions
> | >> that allow this textual data to 'contain' malware - similar to the
> | >> e-mail protocols".
> | >>
> | >> *
> | >>
> | >> *
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> Hmmm! <stroking chin!>
> | >>
> | >> What about when 'pictures' or photographs are included (including
> screenshots) - there's a term
> | >> for
> | >> that which escapes me right now! In other words, not in 'plain text'.
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> I once received a 'screenshot' as an email attachment (I'd asked for
> it
> to be sent to me). I
> | >> opened
> | >> the 'picture' (jpeg I think) and all seemed fine.
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> I then opened the file with Notepad (I do crazy things like that!).
> Wow! Inside that file, above
> | >> all the 'gobbledegook' one might expect, were *live* links to all
> manner of web pages ,,,,,,,, of
> | >> course I went and looked! <grin>
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> During my experimentation over the years, I've seen lots of SPAM
> (advertising the likes of Viagra
> | >> and Jewelry) - every one of those links shown in Notepad was, I'm
> certain, taking me to a SPAM
> | >> site!
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> I''ve been told that is impossible ........... yet I saw it with my
> own
> eyes! So there!
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> Any thoughts?
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> Dave
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> --
> |
> |
> | "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
> ...
> | > All kinds of stuff gets immediately rejected or filtered out soon
> after
> it gets posts to the MS
> | > server. There is generally no rhyme no reason for it. Fact is, nobody
> is
> in charge of the MS news
> | > servers. What there *is* is an ad hoc group of people with differing
> and
> sometimes ridiculous
> | > ideas about how to block SPAM and "objectionable" material, whatever
> they decide that is.
> | > --
> | > Gary S. Terhune
> | > MS-MVP Shell/User
> | > http://grystmill.com
> |
> |
> | Gary - thanks for taking the time and trouble to respond. I've come to
> respect your expertise and
> | attitude. Thanks.
> |
> | It took me a fair while to appreciate that the MS news servers were
> divorced from Microsoft itself
> | and that there is no moderation here, in general terms anyway. I'm quite
> certain that a very high
> | percentage of folk visiting the groups do so out of desperation - I know
> I
> did! I must have been
> | using Outlook Express for about 8 years before I became aware that it
> could be used for
> | participating in newsgroups in addition to use for email! Doh!
> |
> | I have, though, always assumed that Microsoft funds the cost of running
> the servers. Can you confirm
> | that that is so? I did once question why there are two active servers -
> news.microsoft.com AND
> | msnews.microsoft.com. A historical 'quirk' I believe I was told.
> |
> | I'm uncertain if you read right through my post. Have you any
> understanding of *how* live links to
> | web sites could be 'hidden' within a jpeg file? I'm happy for you to
> email
> me if you would prefer so
> | to do. Just let me know here and I'll give you my address. TIA
> |
> | In the meantime, I'll try posting my message to FTR again and see what
> happens this time!
> |
> | Dave
> |
> | Dave
> |
> | --
>
> The JPEG/JGP issue was a matter of concern [and still is] several years
> ago
> with numerous sites related and discussions in the forums. One could
> reasonably state that the/those format(s) has(have) been used successfully
> to do exactly as you indicate.
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=JPEG+used+to+hack&btnG=Search
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=JPEG+vulnerability&btnG=Search
>
>
> --
> MEB
> a Peoples' counsel
> --
> _________
>
>
>

[Dan]

Thanks for the information as well Tim.

"Tim Slattery" wrote:

> "~BD~" > wrote:
>
> >I have, though, always assumed that Microsoft funds the cost of running the servers. Can you confirm
> >that that is so? I did once question why there are two active servers - news.microsoft.com AND
> >msnews.microsoft.com. A historical 'quirk' I believe I was told.
>
> The servers belong to Microsoft, they contract out the actual running
> of them. There's only one server address, both domain names resolve to
> the same IP address.
>
> --
> Tim Slattery
> MS MVP(Shell/User)
>
> http://members.cox.net/slatteryt
>

[dave]

Which of the 7 Deadly Sins is software piracy?
> --
> { : [|]=( DaffyD®


its not the sins that is the issue, its whether you believe christ was here, and whether you enter
in to his baptism and mannerism. the baptism he proclaimed, and also proclaimed it the loudest
by actually doing it, is the baptism of full immersion in water,, performed by another who has the
holy ghost inside.
at no other time was this ever done, til the christ himself fulfilled it.

so, you see my friends, not following christ himself is the greatest and only true sin.... for by
following him, the others are negated...... yes?
but, as with everything, there lies a trap,, a net to catch fools, and those who puff themselves
up, those who exist for their daily dose of 'recognition' from the subjects.
this 'trap', so far as humans know it, has a name.... simplist one is satan;; seems everyone is
familiar with it, so its generally accepted.
(yet in the first few pages of genesis, it tells of this being as 'wiley',, we also hear of him
being called a beast, "who devours at will". we also are told that he is 'prince'.... prince of
this earth, to reign and do his will,,,, he has 'power' beyond human understanding,, and uses it
daily, hourly,, secondly,, atomically. )

christ knows him, and he knows and fears christ..... christ doesnt fear him at all. for satan
himself is pure 'fear', he even fears himself....... but he wont stop my freinds,, his mission
is to destroy anything and everything that god created, for he despises god, for he is filled with
hate.
i believe its always good to get to know your enemy, that way, at least you are still in the car,
whether in the back seat or the front.... you is still there,, only a last breath can take that
from you, then its off to a place that most dont even consider while eating their weetbix in the
morning........ yes?

anyhoooooo,, this visit to us of christ via god, had one purpose,, and that was/is to
allow us to decide whether we are with him, or against him.. simple, huh!
it has Nothing to do with catholosism, or hinduism, or islamism..... in fact, it has nothing to
do with any flippin' ' ism ' any human can come up with. anyone that thinks otherwise is a
fool, ...... in fact, most/all 'religions' point to an 'all being' one god anyway;; its just
that they have lost their way....... sigh.
you will not find god in a church or mosque on a sunday or saturday or .. whatever, he is the
creator of the universe for goodness sake,, you think he twiddles his thumbs waiting for 'special'
days..... duh!

ppl.... puters are great,,,, but so was the very very very first telly set. glass is a
marvelous product, but only astounded the multitudes when they saw it for the first time. the
discovery of 'refining' and 'metalurgy' was a fascination to humans of that era, but became 'old
hat' as trends and fashions and newer discoveries were made.
my point is,,,, there is only one earth,, and yes, many secrets have been yielded from it via
digging and refining,,,, (i wouldnt even be typing this if it were not so) but its soul and only
purpose was to be a dwelling place for a creature called a 'human'.
no man can answer why...... the black-book even tells us this. we get tid-bits of
insights,,,,,, primarily being the primary one.... ie, that an omnipotent being had been challenged
by one of his omnipotent-underlings, and some sort of war broke out in a place known in the
english language as called 'heaven'.

this 'war', needed a battle-ground....... welcome to earth.

as such, the whole concept of 'life' had been conceived.. (by conception, i mean, that apparantely
god only has to 'think' something, and the next minute it is so. was this planet conceived as a
battleground between two competitors, sometimes its even hard to not believe that to be true,,,,
but because of history books, and especially that of josephus, we know a 'force' or 'power' called
'love', exists, ..... and when used, it increases in power to the user, and also opens up doors to
information to the user as it grows in strength.
(plz, all, do NOT, confuse this 'love' with the love a man and woman have for each other.....
there is a HUGE difference.... okay?)

god himself has said that he IS love. the 'qualities' of love are:: enduring, hoping,
long-suffering, charity, compassion,,,, and i think you get the point.
god also said that : "I Am That I Am". (who hasnt heard or read that ?) it could be written:
"I Exist, Therefore, I Am"....... either way, i think god has made his statement as to who and
what he is. (primarily that 'he' knows who he is,,, yet we mere win98 users bombard our hours
with computers and grocery shopping and ladder climbing.... blah blah)
in other words,, all that we see and do, only relates to what goes on on the outside of this rock
we call earth...... whereas his world revolves around permutations that none here on this earth
could even comprehend.... anyone here beg to differ?

friends.... if you go to church on sundays,,, dont. (the sabbath is saturday, and was never
ever changed even while christ was here, and he said to 'keep' it, not to change it,, sigh,
unfortunately, the catholic hierarchy changed it about 600 or so years ago, claiming that they did
it "just because they could" (and they have done many other anti-christic things also,,,,,, stay
away from them,,, they dont even worship god himself)
next,, get yourself to the nearest person you know who is filled with the holy spirit, and get
yourself baptised,, it is imperitive. (do not listen to or believe your mothers or fathers if they
have told you that you were baptised as an infant,,,,, trust me, you were not baptised,,
again, look to jesus for what to do, and by his act of getting baptised at age 30, he was 'showing
you by example' what to do. a child has no free will, but a mature person makes their own
decision, and christ is looking for those who 'choose'.
next, allow the ghost to gently work in you.... your life will change,, all you saw before,
all you knew before, .... it will all seem different as the days pass. you will look people in
the eyes, people you feel you have known, and they will seem different to you. your 'eyes
of understanding' will be opened, this my friend is how you will know;; and as you accept the
ghost more and more,, then more and more will opened and shown to you.

for those who are unsure,, go pick up the bible that is in your house.... (its okay, you can do
it when no-one is looking.... god wont mind) and open it to the new-testament,, the first gospel,
the one by matthew.. turn to chapter 24, and read the reply given by christ when he was asked
what the signs would come when the end of gods clock for the earth was near........ and what
things christ said would be happening just before he came back;; and the type of madness he would
find,, and how mankind itself was ready to annihilate itself.

i could go into detail regarding the math of the bible, and the hologramatic codes, and the
pi-ra-mid, and stonehenge, and the phonecians, and etc etc....... but suffice to say, Get
Yourselves Baptised. (btw, baptise means 'to go under',,, to 'submerge')

as fer daffys 'daffy' question...... dunno matey,, so, which do you reckoin is the worst of
the 7 deadly sins? got baited breath awaiting.

cya

[~BD~[_2_]]

"dave" > wrote in message ...
>
> Which of the 7 Deadly Sins is software piracy?
>> --
>> { : [|]=( DaffyD®
>
>
> its not the sins that is the issue, its whether you believe christ was here, and whether you enter
> in to his baptism and mannerism. the baptism he proclaimed, and also proclaimed it the
> loudest
> by actually doing it, is the baptism of full immersion in water,, performed by another who has
> the
> holy ghost inside.
> at no other time was this ever done, til the christ himself fulfilled it.
>
> so, you see my friends, not following christ himself is the greatest and only true sin.... for by
> following him, the others are negated...... yes?
> but, as with everything, there lies a trap,, a net to catch fools, and those who puff themselves
> up, those who exist for their daily dose of 'recognition' from the subjects.
> this 'trap', so far as humans know it, has a name.... simplist one is satan;; seems everyone
> is
> familiar with it, so its generally accepted.
> (yet in the first few pages of genesis, it tells of this being as 'wiley',, we also hear of him
> being called a beast, "who devours at will". we also are told that he is 'prince'.... prince
> of
> this earth, to reign and do his will,,,, he has 'power' beyond human understanding,, and uses
> it
> daily, hourly,, secondly,, atomically. )
>
> christ knows him, and he knows and fears christ..... christ doesnt fear him at all. for
> satan
> himself is pure 'fear', he even fears himself....... but he wont stop my freinds,, his
> mission
> is to destroy anything and everything that god created, for he despises god, for he is filled with
> hate.
> i believe its always good to get to know your enemy, that way, at least you are still in the car,
> whether in the back seat or the front.... you is still there,, only a last breath can take
> that
> from you, then its off to a place that most dont even consider while eating their weetbix in the
> morning........ yes?
>
> anyhoooooo,, this visit to us of christ via god, had one purpose,, and that was/is to
> allow us to decide whether we are with him, or against him.. simple, huh!
> it has Nothing to do with catholosism, or hinduism, or islamism..... in fact, it has nothing to
> do with any flippin' ' ism ' any human can come up with. anyone that thinks otherwise is a
> fool, ...... in fact, most/all 'religions' point to an 'all being' one god anyway;; its just
> that they have lost their way....... sigh.
> you will not find god in a church or mosque on a sunday or saturday or .. whatever, he is
> the
> creator of the universe for goodness sake,, you think he twiddles his thumbs waiting for
> 'special'
> days..... duh!
>
> ppl.... puters are great,,,, but so was the very very very first telly set. glass is a
> marvelous product, but only astounded the multitudes when they saw it for the first time.
> the
> discovery of 'refining' and 'metalurgy' was a fascination to humans of that era, but became 'old
> hat' as trends and fashions and newer discoveries were made.
> my point is,,,, there is only one earth,, and yes, many secrets have been yielded from it via
> digging and refining,,,, (i wouldnt even be typing this if it were not so) but its soul and only
> purpose was to be a dwelling place for a creature called a 'human'.
> no man can answer why...... the black-book even tells us this. we get tid-bits of
> insights,,,,,, primarily being the primary one.... ie, that an omnipotent being had been
> challenged
> by one of his omnipotent-underlings, and some sort of war broke out in a place known in the
> english language as called 'heaven'.
>
> this 'war', needed a battle-ground....... welcome to earth.
>
> as such, the whole concept of 'life' had been conceived.. (by conception, i mean, that
> apparantely
> god only has to 'think' something, and the next minute it is so. was this planet conceived as a
> battleground between two competitors, sometimes its even hard to not believe that to be true,,,,
> but because of history books, and especially that of josephus, we know a 'force' or 'power' called
> 'love', exists, ..... and when used, it increases in power to the user, and also opens up doors
> to
> information to the user as it grows in strength.
> (plz, all, do NOT, confuse this 'love' with the love a man and woman have for each other.....
> there is a HUGE difference.... okay?)
>
> god himself has said that he IS love. the 'qualities' of love are:: enduring, hoping,
> long-suffering, charity, compassion,,,, and i think you get the point.
> god also said that : "I Am That I Am". (who hasnt heard or read that ?) it could be written:
> "I Exist, Therefore, I Am"....... either way, i think god has made his statement as to who
> and
> what he is. (primarily that 'he' knows who he is,,, yet we mere win98 users bombard our hours
> with computers and grocery shopping and ladder climbing.... blah blah)
> in other words,, all that we see and do, only relates to what goes on on the outside of this
> rock
> we call earth...... whereas his world revolves around permutations that none here on this earth
> could even comprehend.... anyone here beg to differ?
>
> friends.... if you go to church on sundays,,, dont. (the sabbath is saturday, and was
> never
> ever changed even while christ was here, and he said to 'keep' it, not to change it,, sigh,
> unfortunately, the catholic hierarchy changed it about 600 or so years ago, claiming that they did
> it "just because they could" (and they have done many other anti-christic things also,,,,,,
> stay
> away from them,,, they dont even worship god himself)
> next,, get yourself to the nearest person you know who is filled with the holy spirit, and get
> yourself baptised,, it is imperitive. (do not listen to or believe your mothers or fathers if
> they
> have told you that you were baptised as an infant,,,,, trust me, you were not baptised,,
> again, look to jesus for what to do, and by his act of getting baptised at age 30, he was 'showing
> you by example' what to do. a child has no free will, but a mature person makes their own
> decision, and christ is looking for those who 'choose'.
> next, allow the ghost to gently work in you.... your life will change,, all you saw before,
> all you knew before, .... it will all seem different as the days pass. you will look people in
> the eyes, people you feel you have known, and they will seem different to you. your 'eyes
> of understanding' will be opened, this my friend is how you will know;; and as you accept
> the
> ghost more and more,, then more and more will opened and shown to you.
>
> for those who are unsure,, go pick up the bible that is in your house.... (its okay, you can do
> it when no-one is looking.... god wont mind) and open it to the new-testament,, the first
> gospel,
> the one by matthew.. turn to chapter 24, and read the reply given by christ when he was
> asked
> what the signs would come when the end of gods clock for the earth was near........ and what
> things christ said would be happening just before he came back;; and the type of madness he would
> find,, and how mankind itself was ready to annihilate itself.
>
> i could go into detail regarding the math of the bible, and the hologramatic codes, and the
> pi-ra-mid, and stonehenge, and the phonecians, and etc etc....... but suffice to say, Get
> Yourselves Baptised. (btw, baptise means 'to go under',,, to 'submerge')
>
> as fer daffys 'daffy' question...... dunno matey,, so, which do you reckoin is the worst of
> the 7 deadly sins? got baited breath awaiting.
>
> cya
>
>
>
>

Great post Dave! Thank you :)

Out of general interest ....... did *you* write it? (or copy from somewhere else)

Some may not have seen Creation from a computer's viewpoint.

Watch here: http://www.pi.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/creation.html

Enjoy!

Dave

[Gary S. Terhune[_2_]]

God Damned Christians!! Get the Hell out of here!

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"dave" > wrote in message
...
>
> Which of the 7 Deadly Sins is software piracy?
>> --
>> { : [|]=( DaffyD®
>
>
> its not the sins that is the issue, its whether you believe christ was
> here, and whether you enter
> in to his baptism and mannerism. the baptism he proclaimed, and also
> proclaimed it the loudest
> by actually doing it, is the baptism of full immersion in water,,
> performed by another who has the
> holy ghost inside.
> at no other time was this ever done, til the christ himself fulfilled it.
>
> so, you see my friends, not following christ himself is the greatest and
> only true sin.... for by
> following him, the others are negated...... yes?
> but, as with everything, there lies a trap,, a net to catch fools, and
> those who puff themselves
> up, those who exist for their daily dose of 'recognition' from the
> subjects.
> this 'trap', so far as humans know it, has a name.... simplist one is
> satan;; seems everyone is
> familiar with it, so its generally accepted.
> (yet in the first few pages of genesis, it tells of this being as
> 'wiley',, we also hear of him
> being called a beast, "who devours at will". we also are told that he
> is 'prince'.... prince of
> this earth, to reign and do his will,,,, he has 'power' beyond human
> understanding,, and uses it
> daily, hourly,, secondly,, atomically. )
>
> christ knows him, and he knows and fears christ..... christ doesnt
> fear him at all. for satan
> himself is pure 'fear', he even fears himself....... but he wont stop
> my freinds,, his mission
> is to destroy anything and everything that god created, for he despises
> god, for he is filled with
> hate.
> i believe its always good to get to know your enemy, that way, at least
> you are still in the car,
> whether in the back seat or the front.... you is still there,, only a
> last breath can take that
> from you, then its off to a place that most dont even consider while
> eating their weetbix in the
> morning........ yes?
>
> anyhoooooo,, this visit to us of christ via god, had one purpose,,
> and that was/is to
> allow us to decide whether we are with him, or against him.. simple, huh!
> it has Nothing to do with catholosism, or hinduism, or islamism..... in
> fact, it has nothing to
> do with any flippin' ' ism ' any human can come up with. anyone that
> thinks otherwise is a
> fool, ...... in fact, most/all 'religions' point to an 'all being' one
> god anyway;; its just
> that they have lost their way....... sigh.
> you will not find god in a church or mosque on a sunday or saturday or
> .. whatever, he is the
> creator of the universe for goodness sake,, you think he twiddles his
> thumbs waiting for 'special'
> days..... duh!
>
> ppl.... puters are great,,,, but so was the very very very first
> telly set. glass is a
> marvelous product, but only astounded the multitudes when they saw it for
> the first time. the
> discovery of 'refining' and 'metalurgy' was a fascination to humans of
> that era, but became 'old
> hat' as trends and fashions and newer discoveries were made.
> my point is,,,, there is only one earth,, and yes, many secrets have
> been yielded from it via
> digging and refining,,,, (i wouldnt even be typing this if it were not so)
> but its soul and only
> purpose was to be a dwelling place for a creature called a 'human'.
> no man can answer why...... the black-book even tells us this. we get
> tid-bits of
> insights,,,,,, primarily being the primary one.... ie, that an omnipotent
> being had been challenged
> by one of his omnipotent-underlings, and some sort of war broke out in a
> place known in the
> english language as called 'heaven'.
>
> this 'war', needed a battle-ground....... welcome to earth.
>
> as such, the whole concept of 'life' had been conceived.. (by conception,
> i mean, that apparantely
> god only has to 'think' something, and the next minute it is so. was
> this planet conceived as a
> battleground between two competitors, sometimes its even hard to not
> believe that to be true,,,,
> but because of history books, and especially that of josephus, we know a
> 'force' or 'power' called
> 'love', exists, ..... and when used, it increases in power to the user,
> and also opens up doors to
> information to the user as it grows in strength.
> (plz, all, do NOT, confuse this 'love' with the love a man and woman have
> for each other.....
> there is a HUGE difference.... okay?)
>
> god himself has said that he IS love. the 'qualities' of love are::
> enduring, hoping,
> long-suffering, charity, compassion,,,, and i think you get the point.
> god also said that : "I Am That I Am". (who hasnt heard or read that ?)
> it could be written:
> "I Exist, Therefore, I Am"....... either way, i think god has made
> his statement as to who and
> what he is. (primarily that 'he' knows who he is,,, yet we mere win98
> users bombard our hours
> with computers and grocery shopping and ladder climbing.... blah blah)
> in other words,, all that we see and do, only relates to what goes on on
> the outside of this rock
> we call earth...... whereas his world revolves around permutations that
> none here on this earth
> could even comprehend.... anyone here beg to differ?
>
> friends.... if you go to church on sundays,,, dont. (the sabbath
> is saturday, and was never
> ever changed even while christ was here, and he said to 'keep' it, not to
> change it,, sigh,
> unfortunately, the catholic hierarchy changed it about 600 or so years
> ago, claiming that they did
> it "just because they could" (and they have done many other anti-christic
> things also,,,,,, stay
> away from them,,, they dont even worship god himself)
> next,, get yourself to the nearest person you know who is filled with
> the holy spirit, and get
> yourself baptised,, it is imperitive. (do not listen to or believe your
> mothers or fathers if they
> have told you that you were baptised as an infant,,,,, trust me, you
> were not baptised,,
> again, look to jesus for what to do, and by his act of getting baptised at
> age 30, he was 'showing
> you by example' what to do. a child has no free will, but a mature
> person makes their own
> decision, and christ is looking for those who 'choose'.
> next, allow the ghost to gently work in you.... your life will
> change,, all you saw before,
> all you knew before, .... it will all seem different as the days pass.
> you will look people in
> the eyes, people you feel you have known, and they will seem different to
> you. your 'eyes
> of understanding' will be opened, this my friend is how you will
> know;; and as you accept the
> ghost more and more,, then more and more will opened and shown to you.
>
> for those who are unsure,, go pick up the bible that is in your
> house.... (its okay, you can do
> it when no-one is looking.... god wont mind) and open it to the
> new-testament,, the first gospel,
> the one by matthew.. turn to chapter 24, and read the reply given by
> christ when he was asked
> what the signs would come when the end of gods clock for the earth was
> near........ and what
> things christ said would be happening just before he came back;; and the
> type of madness he would
> find,, and how mankind itself was ready to annihilate itself.
>
> i could go into detail regarding the math of the bible, and the
> hologramatic codes, and the
> pi-ra-mid, and stonehenge, and the phonecians, and etc etc....... but
> suffice to say, Get
> Yourselves Baptised. (btw, baptise means 'to go under',,, to 'submerge')
>
> as fer daffys 'daffy' question...... dunno matey,, so, which do you
> reckoin is the worst of
> the 7 deadly sins? got baited breath awaiting.
>
> cya
>
>
>

[Franc Zabkar]

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:27:34 +0100, "~BD~" >
put finger to keyboard and composed:

>I'm uncertain if you read right through my post. Have you any understanding of *how* live links to
>web sites could be 'hidden' within a jpeg file?

Apart from such malware being hidden inside an actual JPEG, my browser
(Opera) also has a potential vulnerability (IMHO) where a HTML file,
say, can be disguised as a JPEG.

HTML disguised as JPEG:
http://groups.google.com/group/opera.general/browse_thread/thread/c2ebbe6722282167/57427a3e759f28e3?lnk=st&q=#57427a3e759f28e3
http://preview.tinyurl.com/56cwhp

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

[~BD~[_2_]]

"Franc Zabkar" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:27:34 +0100, "~BD~" >
> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>>I'm uncertain if you read right through my post. Have you any understanding of *how* live links to
>>web sites could be 'hidden' within a jpeg file?
>
> Apart from such malware being hidden inside an actual JPEG, my browser
> (Opera) also has a potential vulnerability (IMHO) where a HTML file,
> say, can be disguised as a JPEG.
>
> HTML disguised as JPEG:
> http://groups.google.com/group/opera.general/browse_thread/thread/c2ebbe6722282167/57427a3e759f28e3?lnk=st&q=#57427a3e759f28e3
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/56cwhp
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

--

Thank you for your contribution, Frank. Intriguing!

Dave

[~BD~[_2_]]

I am sorry ................ *Franc*

Dave
--
<snip>

[Dan]

I get in the same trouble especially in the past of going off topic Dave and
yes I do have Faith and Believe in a Higher Power but I try to limit the
discussions here because I learned the hard way in the past in this
newsgroup. <smile> The discussions that get out of control too easily in my
opinion are religion and politics and are so personnel and so subjective that
they inflame passions so highly that people get offended and you get offended
and then everyone is bitter at each other and the thread degrades to total
chaos and she and he said and verbal bashing and it is just plain bad, imo.
It is much better to discuss these topics with individuals face to face and
be willing to hear their side of the story and proceed with an open mind.
Heck, I am currently really tired of politics and am so annoyed by all the he
and she said that it makes me not want to even excercise my American right to
vote in the November elections. I will just wait and see and sort it out at
least a little bit by the end of October and I really have gotten cynical and
think now despite what happens that there will be no change in Washington
despite the elections and that is the end of the story. Thank you Dave for
showing me that I am not the only human that keeps making mistakes in regards
to discussion newsgroups especially recently in the Microsoft Security
Newsgroup which I am taking a break from to relax. Perhaps, someday I will
indeed join your newsgroup but certainly not today because I have enough on
my plate with reading the news, listening to radio news and emails and work
to just try and sort it out without adding more to my plate. I am only
replying to this post because I see that Franc has not yet replied and if it
is indeed hijacking then I am indeed sorry as well Franc but your post was
also of great interest to me about the vulnerability in Opera and goes
against Thanatoid's notion of Opera being supreme. <grin>

"~BD~" wrote:

> I am sorry ................ *Franc*
>
> Dave
> --
> <snip>
>
>
>

[~BD~[_2_]]

To cheer you up, Dan!

It's something topical: From my brother-in-law @ IBM

You need sound!

www.peteyandpetunia.com/VoteHere/VoteHere.htm

Enjoy!

Dave

--

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
>I get in the same trouble especially in the past of going off topic Dave and
> yes I do have Faith and Believe in a Higher Power but I try to limit the
> discussions here because I learned the hard way in the past in this
> newsgroup. <smile> The discussions that get out of control too easily in my
> opinion are religion and politics and are so personnel and so subjective that
> they inflame passions so highly that people get offended and you get offended
> and then everyone is bitter at each other and the thread degrades to total
> chaos and she and he said and verbal bashing and it is just plain bad, imo.
> It is much better to discuss these topics with individuals face to face and
> be willing to hear their side of the story and proceed with an open mind.
> Heck, I am currently really tired of politics and am so annoyed by all the he
> and she said that it makes me not want to even excercise my American right to
> vote in the November elections. I will just wait and see and sort it out at
> least a little bit by the end of October and I really have gotten cynical and
> think now despite what happens that there will be no change in Washington
> despite the elections and that is the end of the story. Thank you Dave for
> showing me that I am not the only human that keeps making mistakes in regards
> to discussion newsgroups especially recently in the Microsoft Security
> Newsgroup which I am taking a break from to relax. Perhaps, someday I will
> indeed join your newsgroup but certainly not today because I have enough on
> my plate with reading the news, listening to radio news and emails and work
> to just try and sort it out without adding more to my plate. I am only
> replying to this post because I see that Franc has not yet replied and if it
> is indeed hijacking then I am indeed sorry as well Franc but your post was
> also of great interest to me about the vulnerability in Opera and goes
> against Thanatoid's notion of Opera being supreme. <grin>
>
> "~BD~" wrote:
>
>> I am sorry ................ *Franc*
>>
>> Dave
>> --
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>
>

[Jeff Richards]

The term has been an international standard since before these conventions
came into being. The conventions codified and standardised many common
nautical terms. It was used correctly and was relevant. See, for instance;
http://www.soundkeepers.com/kids/alphabet/
under U (Uniform). You should do a little research yourself rather than
relying on other people to point these things out.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
> ~BD~ wrote:
>
>> > Well, then, in that case - wouldn't "sailing into danger" be
>> > better?
>
>> Consider this, wise Guy:-
>>
>> (a brief explanation of maritime history and the origin of the "IMO")
>
> Um, ok. That's nice.
>
> Don't see what it has to do with what was being discussed.

[~BD~[_2_]]

Thank you for your support Mr Jeff Richards! :)

Dave

--
"Jeff Richards" > wrote in message
...
> The term has been an international standard since before these conventions came into being. The
> conventions codified and standardised many common nautical terms. It was used correctly and was
> relevant. See, for instance;
> http://www.soundkeepers.com/kids/alphabet/
> under U (Uniform). You should do a little research yourself rather than relying on other people
> to point these things out.
> --
> Jeff Richards
> MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
> "98 Guy" > wrote in message ...
>> ~BD~ wrote:
>>
>>> > Well, then, in that case - wouldn't "sailing into danger" be
>>> > better?
>>
>>> Consider this, wise Guy:-
>>>
>>> (a brief explanation of maritime history and the origin of the "IMO")
>>
>> Um, ok. That's nice.
>>
>> Don't see what it has to do with what was being discussed.
>
>
>