Backup to External HDD

[Buffalo]

I have both Win98SE and Win2000 dual booting on one HDD. The Win2000 is NTSF
and Wiu98SE is FAT32.
Can I backup both on the same external HDD by doing it through Win2000?
I don't believe I can do it through Win98SE as it can't see the Win2000
partition.
How would I go about this?
Do I have to partition the backup external HDD also in both formats and
backup each OS separately?
Thanks
PS: The reason I am posting in this NG is because of the many smart people
here that are willing to help.
Buffalo

[Buffalo]

Buffalo wrote:
> I have both Win98SE and Win2000 dual booting on one HDD. The Win2000
> is NTSF and Wiu98SE is FAT32.
> Can I backup both on the same external HDD by doing it through
> Win2000?
> I don't believe I can do it through Win98SE as it can't see the
> Win2000 partition.
> How would I go about this?
> Do I have to partition the backup external HDD also in both formats
> and backup each OS separately?
> Thanks
> PS: The reason I am posting in this NG is because of the many smart
> people here that are willing to help.
> Buffalo

Or perhaps I should just buy an internal HDD that has both SATA and EIDE
capability.
If I used an internal HDD for backup, I guess I would have to partition it
to max partition sizes of 32GBs, or is there a program that allows larger
partitions for FAT32?
Any suggestions?
PS: My system is an Elitegroup K7s5a MB, an AMD 2100XP cpu, 1GB of
DDRram,ATI8500 vid card,Maxtor 120GB HDD and dual booting Win98SE and
Win2000Pro. I also have a DVD and CD burners.

[Buffalo]

Buffalo wrote:
> Or perhaps I should just buy an internal HDD that has both SATA and
> EIDE capability.

Whoops, I misread and thought that some HDDs had both connections. I guess I
was wrong.

[MEB[_2_]]

In ,
Buffalo contemplated and posted:

| Buffalo wrote:
|> I have both Win98SE and Win2000 dual booting on one HDD. The Win2000
|> is NTSF and Wiu98SE is FAT32.
|> Can I backup both on the same external HDD by doing it through
|> Win2000?

Yes.

|> I don't believe I can do it through Win98SE as it can't see the
|> Win2000 partition.

Depends on what you mean by backup. IF you're going to use a program which
makes its own compressed images then it won't matter IF the program has the
ability to read sector data directly. I like backup software which allows
saving ONLY the used sectors.

|> How would I go about this?
|> Do I have to partition the backup external HDD also in both formats
|> and backup each OS separately?

Again, depends upon what you mean by backup.

|> Thanks
|> PS: The reason I am posting in this NG is because of the many smart
|> people here that are willing to help.
|> Buffalo
|
| Or perhaps I should just buy an internal HDD that has both SATA and
| EIDE capability.
| If I used an internal HDD for backup, I guess I would have to
| partition it to max partition sizes of 32GBs, or is there a program
| that allows larger partitions for FAT32?

98SE [updated] supports drives to about 128 gig. There are third party mods
which allow larger. Practically though, the partition size should be smaller
for the 9X as its disk tools work better with smaller drives. I personally
use 15 gig partitions for SE. Leaves plenty of room for all the tools and
programs, and I run the disk tools when I'm sleeping so they're always done
way before I wake up... the size really depends upon your intended usage.

| Any suggestions?
| PS: My system is an Elitegroup K7s5a MB, an AMD 2100XP cpu, 1GB of
| DDRram,ATI8500 vid card,Maxtor 120GB HDD and dual booting Win98SE and
| Win2000Pro. I also have a DVD and CD burners.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
--
_________

[Tim Slattery]

"Buffalo" > wrote:

>I have both Win98SE and Win2000 dual booting on one HDD. The Win2000 is NTSF
>and Wiu98SE is FAT32.
>Can I backup both on the same external HDD by doing it through Win2000?

Yes

>I don't believe I can do it through Win98SE as it can't see the Win2000
>partition.

Right

>How would I go about this?
>Do I have to partition the backup external HDD also in both formats and
>backup each OS separately?

You presumably will want to keep the data from the two partitions
separate so that you can put it back in its proper place. Separate
partitions on the backup disk would be one way to do this. Separate
directories might be another.

--
Tim Slattery
MS MVP(Shell/User)

http://members.cox.net/slatteryt

[Don Phillipson[_5_]]

"Buffalo" > wrote in message
. ..

> I have both Win98SE and Win2000 dual booting on one HDD. The Win2000 is
NTSF
> and Wiu98SE is FAT32.
> Can I backup both on the same external HDD by doing it through Win2000?
> I don't believe I can do it through Win98SE as it can't see the Win2000
> partition.
> How would I go about this?
> Do I have to partition the backup external HDD also in both formats and
> backup each OS separately?

Drive format is OS-dependent, i.e. Win98 systems cannot
read NTSF drives, but WinME can read both (I think.) So your
simplest route is to keep the external HDD formatted FAT32,
and back up the two C: drives independently. Likely tools
include Acronis, XXCopy, and so on. (Because drive capacity
is large, there is no need to use NTBACKUP or similar software
that stores the backup in proprietary format. This is the way I
back up Win98 and WinXP PCs, XXCopying both to an external
(USB) drive formatted FAT32.) See copious information at
www.xxcopy.com.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Gary S. Terhune[_2_]]

If your external HD is formatted FAT32, you can back up both systems to it.
If you want to do all of the backups at once, you do it from the Win2000
side, which can see all of them, and that even lets you format the external
HD as NTFS. Or, you can back up the Win98 side using a backup program
installed there.

Or you can use any number of imaging programs that operate from a CD or
something like BootIt NG (which has it's own operating system) and Image the
drives. The formatting of the external drive would only have to comply with
whatever Imaging program you're using.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"Buffalo" > wrote in message
. ..
>I have both Win98SE and Win2000 dual booting on one HDD. The Win2000 is
>NTSF
> and Wiu98SE is FAT32.
> Can I backup both on the same external HDD by doing it through Win2000?
> I don't believe I can do it through Win98SE as it can't see the Win2000
> partition.
> How would I go about this?
> Do I have to partition the backup external HDD also in both formats and
> backup each OS separately?
> Thanks
> PS: The reason I am posting in this NG is because of the many smart people
> here that are willing to help.
> Buffalo
>
>

[Gary S. Terhune[_2_]]

"Don Phillipson" > wrote in message
...
> "Buffalo" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>> I have both Win98SE and Win2000 dual booting on one HDD. The Win2000 is
> NTSF
>> and Wiu98SE is FAT32.
>> Can I backup both on the same external HDD by doing it through Win2000?
>> I don't believe I can do it through Win98SE as it can't see the Win2000
>> partition.
>> How would I go about this?
>> Do I have to partition the backup external HDD also in both formats and
>> backup each OS separately?
>
> Drive format is OS-dependent, i.e. Win98 systems cannot
> read NTSF drives, but WinME can read both (I think.)

No, WinME can't read NTFS.

>So your
> simplest route is to keep the external HDD formatted FAT32,
> and back up the two C: drives independently. Likely tools
> include Acronis, XXCopy, and so on.

XXCOPY does NOT make a restorable backup of the Win2000 system. And the
*simplest* route is to format the external HD as NTFS and do ALL of the
backup from the Win2000 OS (or some other OS on removable media.) Not
perhaps the smartest route, but certainly the simplest.

> (Because drive capacity
> is large, there is no need to use NTBACKUP or similar software
> that stores the backup in proprietary format. This is the way I
> back up Win98 and WinXP PCs, XXCopying both to an external
> (USB) drive formatted FAT32.) See copious information at
> www.xxcopy.com.

Please show any documentation where it says you can use XXCOPY (or any
*file* copying method) to create a backup of the *system* in Win2k/XP/Vista.
Hint: You can't. It's fine for backing up data files, but not for a "system
backup" that can be restored to a repartitioned/reformatted or new HD.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

[Buffalo]

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> If your external HD is formatted FAT32, you can back up both systems
> to it. If you want to do all of the backups at once, you do it from
> the Win2000 side, which can see all of them, and that even lets you
> format the external HD as NTFS. Or, you can back up the Win98 side
> using a backup program installed there.
>
> Or you can use any number of imaging programs that operate from a CD
> or something like BootIt NG (which has it's own operating system) and
> Image the drives. The formatting of the external drive would only
> have to comply with whatever Imaging program you're using.
>
Thanks to all that responded.
Gary, I should have been clearer in my OP.
The reason I asked is that since I only have one HDD at this time and my
Ghost backups are on it, I know that when it dies, I will lose everything. I
need to copy everything to a new HDD, whether it is internal or external so
that I would be able to put it on a new HDD, in case of failure.
I'm not talking about daily backups, although I might try weekly ones.
I do not have anything backed up from the NTFS partition at this time.

[Lil' Dave]

"Buffalo" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Gary S. Terhune wrote:
>> If your external HD is formatted FAT32, you can back up both systems
>> to it. If you want to do all of the backups at once, you do it from
>> the Win2000 side, which can see all of them, and that even lets you
>> format the external HD as NTFS. Or, you can back up the Win98 side
>> using a backup program installed there.
>>
>> Or you can use any number of imaging programs that operate from a CD
>> or something like BootIt NG (which has it's own operating system) and
>> Image the drives. The formatting of the external drive would only
>> have to comply with whatever Imaging program you're using.
>>
> Thanks to all that responded.
> Gary, I should have been clearer in my OP.
> The reason I asked is that since I only have one HDD at this time and my
> Ghost backups are on it, I know that when it dies, I will lose everything.
> I
> need to copy everything to a new HDD, whether it is internal or external
> so
> that I would be able to put it on a new HDD, in case of failure.
> I'm not talking about daily backups, although I might try weekly ones.
> I do not have anything backed up from the NTFS partition at this time.
>
>

Its still a mystery EXACTLY what you're trying to do since Ghost will clone
a single partition to adequate space on same hard drive, or if you're doing
an image of a partition as an image file to another partition on the same
hard drive.

And, you may be using the loose term "Ghost" for copying a partition
(cloning), or imaging with some other software not called "Ghost".

If a hard drive "dies", for all intents and purposes, the file data is not
available unless considerable expense is expected by yourself for a data
recovery service. Some common deaths are defined as onboard ide controller
failure, total platter magnetic failure, R/W head failure.

Further, a true backup is never kept on the same hard drive. A quick
recovery scheme may be kept there (same hard drive) for only that purpose.
Under those true backup constraints, an image restoration requires still
another physical hard drive for recovery. Clones require another as well at
time of cloning.

Ideally, the external backup is visible in both situations during the backup
procedure. Whether, within each version of windows, OR, from boot media.
From backup software, the external media must be visible in both versions of
windows, AND, if imaging, the recovery portion of the imaging software must
recognize that external media under recovery that is usually on boot media.

The loose terms used are expandable for the discussion, but, not always, if
at all, specific to your problem. Be specific.
--
Dave

Bailout: Friend, relative, business acquaintance
paying a sum to get the accused
out of jail until court is ready to proceed.

Bailout: U.S. taxpayers paying a sum of
money for some critical business failure
that was fleecing the taxpayer to begin
with.
Somehow, the word "bailout" seems
very different.

[Buffalo]

Lil' Dave wrote:
> "Buffalo" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>>
>> Gary S. Terhune wrote:
>>> If your external HD is formatted FAT32, you can back up both systems
>>> to it. If you want to do all of the backups at once, you do it from
>>> the Win2000 side, which can see all of them, and that even lets you
>>> format the external HD as NTFS. Or, you can back up the Win98 side
>>> using a backup program installed there.
>>>
>>> Or you can use any number of imaging programs that operate from a CD
>>> or something like BootIt NG (which has it's own operating system)
>>> and Image the drives. The formatting of the external drive would
>>> only have to comply with whatever Imaging program you're using.
>>>
>> Thanks to all that responded.
>> Gary, I should have been clearer in my OP.
>> The reason I asked is that since I only have one HDD at this time
>> and my Ghost backups are on it, I know that when it dies, I will
>> lose everything. I
>> need to copy everything to a new HDD, whether it is internal or
>> external so
>> that I would be able to put it on a new HDD, in case of failure.
>> I'm not talking about daily backups, although I might try weekly
>> ones.
>> I do not have anything backed up from the NTFS partition at this
>> time.
>>
>>
>
> Its still a mystery EXACTLY what you're trying to do since Ghost will
> clone a single partition to adequate space on same hard drive, or if
> you're doing an image of a partition as an image file to another
> partition on the same hard drive.
>
> And, you may be using the loose term "Ghost" for copying a partition
> (cloning), or imaging with some other software not called "Ghost".
>
> If a hard drive "dies", for all intents and purposes, the file data
> is not available unless considerable expense is expected by yourself
> for a data recovery service. Some common deaths are defined as
> onboard ide controller failure, total platter magnetic failure, R/W
> head failure.
>
> Further, a true backup is never kept on the same hard drive. A quick
> recovery scheme may be kept there (same hard drive) for only that
> purpose. Under those true backup constraints, an image restoration
> requires still another physical hard drive for recovery. Clones
> require another as well at time of cloning.
>
> Ideally, the external backup is visible in both situations during the
> backup procedure. Whether, within each version of windows, OR, from
> boot media. From backup software, the external media must be visible
> in both versions of windows, AND, if imaging, the recovery portion of
> the imaging software must recognize that external media under
> recovery that is usually on boot media.
>
> The loose terms used are expandable for the discussion, but, not
> always, if at all, specific to your problem. Be specific.

This is what I am trying to accomplish.
This is about as clear as I can make it.
I am using Norton Ghost from my NSWpro2003 program at the present time.
I made an image of my Win98SE to another partition on the same HDD (120GB
EIDE ATA-133) (the only one in my computer).
I have not made an image of my Win2000 OS or its programs.
I want to be able to 'save,image,copy,whatever' all the info off my Win98SE
and my Win2000 in case I lose the present HDD.

IOW, after the info has been saved and the HDD goes bad, I can just toss it
in the garbage, install a brand new HDD and copy all the stuff off my
'backup' HDD and be back in business in a very minimum amount of time.

Should I use the Norton Ghost program for this?
Should I use a different program for this?
Can both 98 & 2000 be 'copied,saved,imaged, whatever' in the same step?
Is another internal HDD preferrable or should I invest in an external USB
EIDE HDD?
When I format the 'new' HDD that I am using to 'save' on, do I have to
format in FAT32 and in NTFS (two different partitions, at least) so that I
can accomplish this or what?
Thanks

[Gary S. Terhune[_2_]]

"Buffalo" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Lil' Dave wrote:
>> "Buffalo" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>>
>>> Gary S. Terhune wrote:
>>>> If your external HD is formatted FAT32, you can back up both systems
>>>> to it. If you want to do all of the backups at once, you do it from
>>>> the Win2000 side, which can see all of them, and that even lets you
>>>> format the external HD as NTFS. Or, you can back up the Win98 side
>>>> using a backup program installed there.
>>>>
>>>> Or you can use any number of imaging programs that operate from a CD
>>>> or something like BootIt NG (which has it's own operating system)
>>>> and Image the drives. The formatting of the external drive would
>>>> only have to comply with whatever Imaging program you're using.
>>>>
>>> Thanks to all that responded.
>>> Gary, I should have been clearer in my OP.
>>> The reason I asked is that since I only have one HDD at this time
>>> and my Ghost backups are on it, I know that when it dies, I will
>>> lose everything. I
>>> need to copy everything to a new HDD, whether it is internal or
>>> external so
>>> that I would be able to put it on a new HDD, in case of failure.
>>> I'm not talking about daily backups, although I might try weekly
>>> ones.
>>> I do not have anything backed up from the NTFS partition at this
>>> time.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Its still a mystery EXACTLY what you're trying to do since Ghost will
>> clone a single partition to adequate space on same hard drive, or if
>> you're doing an image of a partition as an image file to another
>> partition on the same hard drive.
>>
>> And, you may be using the loose term "Ghost" for copying a partition
>> (cloning), or imaging with some other software not called "Ghost".
>>
>> If a hard drive "dies", for all intents and purposes, the file data
>> is not available unless considerable expense is expected by yourself
>> for a data recovery service. Some common deaths are defined as
>> onboard ide controller failure, total platter magnetic failure, R/W
>> head failure.
>>
>> Further, a true backup is never kept on the same hard drive. A quick
>> recovery scheme may be kept there (same hard drive) for only that
>> purpose. Under those true backup constraints, an image restoration
>> requires still another physical hard drive for recovery. Clones
>> require another as well at time of cloning.
>>
>> Ideally, the external backup is visible in both situations during the
>> backup procedure. Whether, within each version of windows, OR, from
>> boot media. From backup software, the external media must be visible
>> in both versions of windows, AND, if imaging, the recovery portion of
>> the imaging software must recognize that external media under
>> recovery that is usually on boot media.
>>
>> The loose terms used are expandable for the discussion, but, not
>> always, if at all, specific to your problem. Be specific.
>
> This is what I am trying to accomplish.
> This is about as clear as I can make it.
> I am using Norton Ghost from my NSWpro2003 program at the present time.
> I made an image of my Win98SE to another partition on the same HDD (120GB
> EIDE ATA-133) (the only one in my computer).
> I have not made an image of my Win2000 OS or its programs.
> I want to be able to 'save,image,copy,whatever' all the info off my
> Win98SE
> and my Win2000 in case I lose the present HDD.
>
> IOW, after the info has been saved and the HDD goes bad, I can just toss
> it
> in the garbage, install a brand new HDD and copy all the stuff off my
> 'backup' HDD and be back in business in a very minimum amount of time.
>
> Should I use the Norton Ghost program for this?

Well, it's not my first choice, but if it works for you.

> Should I use a different program for this?

No, Ghost will work fine, though I prefer Acronis True Image. I just hate
Symantec and all it represents.

> Can both 98 & 2000 be 'copied,saved,imaged, whatever' in the same step?

I don't know how Ghost works. With Acronis, yes. However, it all ends up in
one file. I prefer to image each *partition* separately.

> Is another internal HDD preferrable or should I invest in an external USB
> EIDE HDD?

External drive that you unplug after your weekly backup and store elsewhere,
preferably off-site. If your data is truly critical (business, personal
files involving lawsuits, etc.), then you want to get TWO external HDs,
leaave one connected all week and automatically doing it's thing every day
(Incremental backups), then swap the drives at teh end of the week and store
the unplugged on completely off-site. When you plug the off-site one back in
to the machine, start with a new, Complete backup followed by Incrementals
for teh rest of the week. At teh time of plugging it in, check for free
space and delete the oldest backups if things are getting tight.

> When I format the 'new' HDD that I am using to 'save' on, do I have to
> format in FAT32 and in NTFS (two different partitions, at least) so that I
> can accomplish this or what?

Format it in NTFS. No need to partition, just use separate folders. Much
more efficient. Be sure to carefully read your imaging program documentation
closely and make sure you can restore the backup(s) without having to boot
to any hard drive. (The Ghost CD is bootable, I believe, and Acronis
provides various methods.)

You want a true "Imaging" program, not a "Backup" program like Retrospect
(which will probably be included on your new HD(s)), and the horrible
natively supplied backup programs from your Windows OSes.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

[Buffalo]

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> "Buffalo" > wrote in message

[snip]

>> Should I use the Norton Ghost program for this?
>
> Well, it's not my first choice, but if it works for you.
>
>> Should I use a different program for this?
>
> No, Ghost will work fine, though I prefer Acronis True Image. I just
> hate Symantec and all it represents.
>
>> Can both 98 & 2000 be 'copied,saved,imaged, whatever' in the same
>> step?
>
> I don't know how Ghost works. With Acronis, yes. However, it all ends
> up in one file. I prefer to image each *partition* separately.
>
>> Is another internal HDD preferrable or should I invest in an
>> external USB EIDE HDD?
>
> External drive that you unplug after your weekly backup and store
> elsewhere, preferably off-site. If your data is truly critical
> (business, personal files involving lawsuits, etc.), then you want to
> get TWO external HDs, leaave one connected all week and automatically
> doing it's thing every day (Incremental backups), then swap the
> drives at teh end of the week and store the unplugged on completely
> off-site. When you plug the off-site one back in to the machine,
> start with a new, Complete backup followed by Incrementals for teh
> rest of the week. At teh time of plugging it in, check for free space
> and delete the oldest backups if things are getting tight.
>
>> When I format the 'new' HDD that I am using to 'save' on, do I have
>> to format in FAT32 and in NTFS (two different partitions, at least)
>> so that I can accomplish this or what?
>
> Format it in NTFS. No need to partition, just use separate folders.
> Much more efficient. Be sure to carefully read your imaging program
> documentation closely and make sure you can restore the backup(s)
> without having to boot to any hard drive. (The Ghost CD is bootable,
> I believe, and Acronis provides various methods.)
>
> You want a true "Imaging" program, not a "Backup" program like
> Retrospect (which will probably be included on your new HD(s)), and
> the horrible natively supplied backup programs from your Windows OSes.

Thanks for your time and advise.
Buffalo

[Buffalo]

Buffalo wrote:
> Thanks for your time and advise.
> Buffalo

Sorry, should have been advice .
Thanks again.

[Gary S. Terhune[_2_]]

LOL! After all my typos, <g>.

You're welcome.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com

"Buffalo" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Buffalo wrote:
>> Thanks for your time and advise.
>> Buffalo
>
> Sorry, should have been advice .
> Thanks again.
>
>