won't start in safe mode

[Renee]

Big problems here and MANY questions!

Note: I've had WIN ME for 4 some years now plus I know my way around DOS
(started w/win 3.1). I bought my puter w/ME pre-installed. No ME CD setup
disk but last week a friend burned one for me if needed.

I have to use my startup disk & I can not get puter up into safe mode...I
can only work in dos.

Last time I had this puter up & running w/no problems (7/17) I had D/L'd a
microsoft update...that's it (ie., no D/L's of attachments or other to
possibly get a virus). The next day WHAM... the puter shuts down immediately
after the bios screen flashs on. Again, my startup disk won't even let me
get into safe mode.

I have run scandisk thru DOS...all is ok there...
I have run scanreg /fix & /restore...all SEEMS to be ok there BUT...of the 5
restore pts that I had to work from, only 3 were good...the other 2 had not
started yet so hence, not good restore pts. Now after using 2 of the restore
pts, (they ended up not 'starting' either) I now only have 1 good restore
point left and I am afraid to use it fearing if it doesn't hold, I will not
have a good pt to eventually work off of.

1 of the errors that come up is:
(and this screen flashs so quickly that I have to hit pause to read it)
"Registry not found. Registry may be inoperable for this session. XMS cache
problem. Registry may be inoperable this session"

....the next screen says:
"IFSMGR failure... IFSHLP file not found. Make sure that it is installed
correctly.
System halted...

....at this point, I have no other choice but to shut down my puter.

Question...could the microsoft update that I D/L'd put my puter into this
state?
Question...what is a XMS cache? This is one of the errors that I am coming
up with.
Question...I can use my system recovery disks as a last resort but pertinet
info that I inputed recently is info I CAN NOT loose. How to copy certain
files and/or folders located in "My Documents" onto a CD? Some of the files
(.doc) that I know are there (made w/office word 2000) do not show now in
DOS. It's like they just are not there!
Question...can you run a Norton anti virus thru dos to ck for virus's??
Microsoft troubleshooting pages tell me I can but I can't figure out how to
do this ....& yes, I do have a Norton CD.

I would GREATLY appreciate any help that any one can afford me.
I thank you ahead of time!
Renee

If possible, please respond & email me at:

BTW...I am accessing the Internet thru my work computer.

[Noel Paton]

Well - you're about to learn one of the prime rules of computing!!
**Back up often**!!!!

That said, you can probably access the data using another PC, and slaving
your HD to that one's.

How did you get into this position? - it was almost certainly NOT from
installing an MS-sourced patch, but more likely from installing (knowingly
or otherwise), software that you **really** didn't want on your system -
such a virus/trojan/spyware.

Yes you can run NAV from DOS, if you create the appropriate disks (before
the PC crashes, of course) - but there's a good chance that NAV is one of
the causes of your current pains.

Did you at any time get a message - "cannot upgrade file %%1 from %%2" when
booting?? - if so, then you had a problem with NAV that they've known about
for years and refused to fix........
If you've never seen that error, the following may be worth trying anyhow,
as there are other causes(you can ignore the part down as far as ********,
as you seem to have covered the initial possibilities).

NOTE - however, that it's worth trying to use System Restore first!!!
http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=279736
See if that can rescue you, before proceeding further.


Your %1/%2 error is caused usually by Norton LiveUpdate, corrupting the
System Restore archive - although there are other possible causes.

Do a Search for the file WININIT.INI - if you find it, then rename it to
WININIT.JNK, and reboot - your problem should be gone.

If you don't find it, then try this - Start|Run - enter SCANREG /FIX into
the dialog box, and click OK - windows will reboot - see if that fixes it.

If not, then open Windows Explorer - check in Folder Properties that you are
able to view Hidden and System files (two settings), then Search on your PC
for files named '_RESTORE' (without the quotes) - you should find the
C:\_RESTORE folder - r-click on it, and select Properties.
How many files/folders are there? If it's around 64 thousand, then
LiveUpdate has been up to its tricks again, and you'll have to completely
remove the folder from DOS - use the following method, which seems to be
the easiest at present.
*********
Reboot to DOS using your Startup disk enter the following commands at the
A:\> prompt.

ATTRIB -R -H -S C:\_RESTORE
REN C:\_RESTORE OLDREST

remove the floppy, and reboot to normal windows. - your error should be
gone, and you should now have a new, single restore point. Go to Windows
Explorer, and delete the C:\OLDREST folder

HTH


--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

"Renee" > wrote in message
...
> Big problems here and MANY questions!
>
> Note: I've had WIN ME for 4 some years now plus I know my way around DOS
> (started w/win 3.1). I bought my puter w/ME pre-installed. No ME CD setup
> disk but last week a friend burned one for me if needed.
>
> I have to use my startup disk & I can not get puter up into safe mode...I
> can only work in dos.
>
> Last time I had this puter up & running w/no problems (7/17) I had D/L'd a
> microsoft update...that's it (ie., no D/L's of attachments or other to
> possibly get a virus). The next day WHAM... the puter shuts down
> immediately
> after the bios screen flashs on. Again, my startup disk won't even let me
> get into safe mode.
>
> I have run scandisk thru DOS...all is ok there...
> I have run scanreg /fix & /restore...all SEEMS to be ok there BUT...of the
> 5
> restore pts that I had to work from, only 3 were good...the other 2 had
> not
> started yet so hence, not good restore pts. Now after using 2 of the
> restore
> pts, (they ended up not 'starting' either) I now only have 1 good restore
> point left and I am afraid to use it fearing if it doesn't hold, I will
> not
> have a good pt to eventually work off of.
>
> 1 of the errors that come up is:
> (and this screen flashs so quickly that I have to hit pause to read it)
> "Registry not found. Registry may be inoperable for this session. XMS
> cache
> problem. Registry may be inoperable this session"
>
> ...the next screen says:
> "IFSMGR failure... IFSHLP file not found. Make sure that it is installed
> correctly.
> System halted...
>
> ...at this point, I have no other choice but to shut down my puter.
>
> Question...could the microsoft update that I D/L'd put my puter into this
> state?
> Question...what is a XMS cache? This is one of the errors that I am coming
> up with.
> Question...I can use my system recovery disks as a last resort but
> pertinet
> info that I inputed recently is info I CAN NOT loose. How to copy certain
> files and/or folders located in "My Documents" onto a CD? Some of the
> files
> (.doc) that I know are there (made w/office word 2000) do not show now in
> DOS. It's like they just are not there!
> Question...can you run a Norton anti virus thru dos to ck for virus's??
> Microsoft troubleshooting pages tell me I can but I can't figure out how
> to
> do this ....& yes, I do have a Norton CD.
>
> I would GREATLY appreciate any help that any one can afford me.
> I thank you ahead of time!
> Renee
>
> If possible, please respond & email me at:
>
> BTW...I am accessing the Internet thru my work computer.

[G E Abrahams]

"Renee" > schreef in bericht
...
> Big problems here and MANY questions!
>
> Note: I've had WIN ME for 4 some years now plus I know my way around
DOS
> (started w/win 3.1). I bought my puter w/ME pre-installed. No ME CD
setup
> disk but last week a friend burned one for me if needed.
>
> I have to use my startup disk & I can not get puter up into safe
mode...I
> can only work in dos.
>
>

My humble advise:

Run setup.exe from C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS or from the Windows cd-rom,
without uninstalling anything.
Most settings are retained.
After that you need WindowsUdate via Internet off course.
I need that once a year (this year twice).

Gerard A.

[Mike M]

Gerard,

Do that and the poster will most likely trash their system especially so
if they have IE6 installed. Reinstalling Win Me by running setup.exe from
the cab folder is fine BUT only after a) uninstalling IE6 (if installed)
and b) renaming wmploc.dll if WMP9 is installed. Failing to do this will
cause a setup failure referencing verx (due to WMP9) and end up with a
complete mish mash of assorted file versions for IE5.5 and IE6.

Incidentally having reinstalled Win Me in this fashion it is essential to
use something such as Belarc's Advisor to check which hotfixes need
reinstalling. The Windows Update site won't help here as the flags placed
in the registry when the patches were originally installed will still be
present after the reinstall although many of the updated files will have
reverted to their original versions.
--
Mike Maltby



G E Abrahams > wrote:

> My humble advise:
>
> Run setup.exe from C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS or from the Windows cd-rom,
> without uninstalling anything.
> Most settings are retained.
> After that you need WindowsUdate via Internet off course.
> I need that once a year (this year twice).

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 04:03:30 -0700, "Renee"

>Big problems here and MANY questions!

Yes - alas, your problem is "interesting"...

>I have to use my startup disk & I can not get puter up into safe mode...I
>can only work in dos. Last time I had this puter up & running w/no
>problems (7/17) I had D/L'd a microsoft update...that's it (ie., no D/L's
>of attachments or other to possibly get a virus). The next day WHAM...
>the puter shuts down immediately after the bios screen flashs on.

OK. The thing to do is to step through the code and files that go
from BIOS transferring control to the Master Boot Record to the OS.

>Again, my startup disk won't even let me get into safe mode.

>I have run scandisk thru DOS...all is ok there...

Surface scan OK? Any hesitations in the cluster counter, or "old"
B(ad) blocks, are grounds to divorce that HD.

RAM check OK? Bad RAM (or other flaky hardware, such as overclocking
the PCI bus that carries HD data) can not only corrupt what is written
to HD, but also *where* it's written. So a chunk of temp file can be
bit-punned (think "sector 4097" vs. "sector 1") into being splatted
over core file system structure (which Scandisk would pick up) or over
the contents of, say, IO.SYS (which Scandisk would miss).

Formal virus check OK? www.f-prot.com is your friend...

Motherboard capacitors OK? Usually those would give you a history of
hard locks, then failure to POST, whereas you're still getting into
DOS mode via a diskette boot.

>I have run scanreg /fix & /restore...

After evacuating data using LCopy from Odi's LFN Tools, backup the
SYSBCKUP contents so you still have sane registry backups to fall back
to. Remember that WinME's registry isn't just SYSTEM.DAT and
USER.DAT; there's also CLASSES.DAT - and while backing up those
registry fallbacks, catch the SYSTEM.1ST and CLASSES.1ST from C:\

>1 of the errors that come up is:
> (and this screen flashs so quickly that I have to hit pause to read it)
>"Registry not found. Registry may be inoperable for this session. XMS cache
>problem. Registry may be inoperable this session"

Done that RAM check yet? MemTest86 runs overnight with zero errors?

Normally. the boot sequence is:
- CMOS setup sets whether to boot HD or not
- if HD to be booted, runs code in Master Boot Record
- that should jump into the partition marked "Active"
- that partition's boot code should look for and load IO.SYS

With me so far? OK, this is what Win95/98 would do...
- IO.SYS displays "Starting Microsoft Windows..." test
- looks for Logo.sys, shows boot menu if F8 key, etc.
- looks for D??SPACE.INI, '.BIN (disk compression, FAT16 only)
- looks for C:\Winboot.ini; if none, for C:\MSDOS.SYS instead
- reads the Windows path from there, else "C:\WINDOWS"
- looks for registry in that path
- processes Config.sys
- unless suppressed, auto-loads HiMem.sys
- HiMem.sys checks RAM only if Safe Mode or explicitly directed
- if bad RAM detected, HiMem.sys reports this, etc.
- autoloads IFSHlp.sys (file system "helper"), SetVer.exe etc.
- if C:\Autoexec exists, Command.com loaded to process it
- if set to load GUI, as usually the case, loads Win.com
- runs Scandisk if flagged to do so
- starts Windows core code libraries, etc. unto desktop and login

Now WinME is a bit different, in that there's no separate HiMem.sys,
IFSHlp.sys, SetVer.exe or SmartDrv.exe files involved - that
functionality is built into a larger IO.SYS - but still, you can see
the various failure points:
- bad CMOS boot order, MBR, partition "active" flag, PBR
- bad IO.SYS
- no C:\Winboot.ini or C:\MSDOS.SYS, or these are corrupted
- no or bad Windows subtree, or no registry in this subtree
- bad RAM detected by integrated HiMem.sys
- bad Windows code files further down the line

>...the next screen says:
>"IFSMGR failure... IFSHLP file not found. Make sure that it is installed
>correctly.
>System halted...

>...at this point, I have no other choice but to shut down my puter.

>Question...could the microsoft update that I D/L'd put my puter into this
>state?

Not AFAIK. But life and death are full of surprises, and a good patch
can do bad things if processed through the lens of bad hardware.

>Question...what is a XMS cache? This is one of the errors that I am coming
>up with.

XMS = eXtended Memory Services, i.e. the ability to see RAM beyond
1024k, as afforded initially by HiMem.sys (part of WinME's IO.sys).

"Bad XMS" may mean bad RAM, or that HiMem.sys did not load because it
was missing. That's obviously less likely when it's part of IO.SYS
;-)

>Question...I can use my system recovery disks as a last resort but pertinet
>info that I inputed recently is info I CAN NOT loose. How to copy certain
>files and/or folders located in "My Documents" onto a CD?

Onto CD's tricky. Onto another dropped-in HD or 1.44M is easier...
look for and find "Odi's LFN Tools", a collection of non-resident
replacement file management "DOS" commands that can handle Long File
Names, even in raw DOS mode.

To slurp the whole of C: to D:\BAD, this is the syntax:

LCopy C:\* D:\BAD /A /S

Note that unusual C:\* (not C:*, C:\*.*, C:\*. etc.)

>Some of the files (.doc) that I know are there (made w/office word 2000)
>do not show now in DOS. It's like they just are not there!

Did Scandisk "fix" anything (he asks ominously)?

>Question...can you run a Norton anti virus thru dos to ck for virus's??

Maybe they have a "rescue" scanner. My choices would be F-Prot for
DOS, NOD32 for DOS, or Sophos for DOS - or, if I was licensed
appropriately, McAfee's ScanPM.exe for extended (DPMS) DOS.

>Microsoft troubleshooting pages tell me I can but I can't figure out how to
>do this ....& yes, I do have a Norton CD.

I think you do it by booting the CD, but how it gets up-to-date sigs
is anyone's guess.

>If possible, please respond & email me at:

CC'd - if it don't go, I'll Eudora you a copy...



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