Safe Mode freeze

[thomas]

I haven't had much reason to start my computer in Safe Mode, but when I did,
it always worked. Today, I tried to use it. (It was recommended in a
security forum that I run the new version of Ad-Aware SE Personal Edition
1.05 in Safe Mode, because it was using too much of my available memory.)

But when I booted into Safe Mode, my mouse wouldn't work (I couldn't click
on "OK"). I couldn't get to Start, in order to shut down. Ctrl + Alt +
Delete wouldn't work. I had to do a hard reboot.

Tried a second time - same result.

My Window98 SE starts normally and is working fine. So, apparently, is
everything else (except Ad-Aware).

Any ideas? I might want to use Safe Mode in the future for something REALLY
important.

Thanks.

thomas

[Richard G. Harper]

Have you recently changed to a USB-connected mouse and keyboard? If so,
does swapping them out for PS/2 equipment resolve your problem?

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User]
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to.
* My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"thomas" > wrote in message
...
>I haven't had much reason to start my computer in Safe Mode, but when I
>did,
> it always worked. Today, I tried to use it. (It was recommended in a
> security forum that I run the new version of Ad-Aware SE Personal Edition
> 1.05 in Safe Mode, because it was using too much of my available memory.)
>
> But when I booted into Safe Mode, my mouse wouldn't work (I couldn't click
> on "OK"). I couldn't get to Start, in order to shut down. Ctrl + Alt +
> Delete wouldn't work. I had to do a hard reboot.
>
> Tried a second time - same result.
>
> My Window98 SE starts normally and is working fine. So, apparently, is
> everything else (except Ad-Aware).
>
> Any ideas? I might want to use Safe Mode in the future for something
> REALLY
> important.
>
> Thanks.
>
> thomas
>
>
>

[Jack E Martinelli]

Following up Mr. Harper, if your BIOS is fairly new, the setup program may
contain a toggle to enable USB-legacy devices, such as the mouse and
keyboard. Test for this possibility, also.

And you are very correct about wanting to be able to use Safe Mode, when
necessary, eg., to repair device drivers.
--
Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
In Memorium: Alex Nichol
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
Your cooperation is very appreciated.
------
"Richard G. Harper" > wrote in message
...
> Have you recently changed to a USB-connected mouse and keyboard? If so,
> does swapping them out for PS/2 equipment resolve your problem?
>
> --
> Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User]
> * PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
> * for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to.
> * My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/
> * HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
>
> "thomas" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I haven't had much reason to start my computer in Safe Mode, but when I
> >did,
> > it always worked. Today, I tried to use it. (It was recommended in a
> > security forum that I run the new version of Ad-Aware SE Personal
Edition
> > 1.05 in Safe Mode, because it was using too much of my available
memory.)
> >
> > But when I booted into Safe Mode, my mouse wouldn't work (I couldn't
click
> > on "OK"). I couldn't get to Start, in order to shut down. Ctrl + Alt +
> > Delete wouldn't work. I had to do a hard reboot.
> >
> > Tried a second time - same result.
> >
> > My Window98 SE starts normally and is working fine. So, apparently, is
> > everything else (except Ad-Aware).
> >
> > Any ideas? I might want to use Safe Mode in the future for something
> > REALLY important.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > thomas
> >

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

On Mon, 9 May 2005 22:47:53 -0600, "thomas"

>I haven't had much reason to start my computer in Safe Mode, but when I did,
>it always worked. Today, I tried to use it. (It was recommended in a
>security forum that I run the new version of Ad-Aware SE Personal Edition
>1.05 in Safe Mode, because it was using too much of my available memory.)

More on "too much memory, please?

Generally, apps don't run out of memory, because physical RAM is
extended to HD via swap file. You'd have to be low on HD space or to
have artificially limited swap file size (i.e. set a maximum limit) to
have a genuine "out of memory" situation, unless the app concerned
insists on locking itself into physical RAM (which is very rude).

However, you may run out of resource heap space. The resource heaps
are global memory stores for particular items, and some of these items
are stored in "legacy" 64k heaps, to keep some badly-written Win3.yuk
applications alive (parts of MS Office have been cited).

There are other workspaces that may hit limits as well, such as SVGA
workspace, maximum allowed space within registry structures, etc.

Finally, malware can spoof system errors, and "out of memory" is often
at the bottom of error-handling fall-through - i.e. "if this1, then
report that1, if this2, then report that2, if this3, then report
that3, else ASSume it's an out-of-memory error"

have you formally excluded traditional malware? Circumstances that
expose you to the commercial malware that AdAware scans for, may also
expose you to "real" malware (viruses, trojans, worms) that AdAware
will not manage, and which should be tackled formally:

http://cquirke.mvps.org/9x/virtest.htm

Note that many malware, both traditional and commercial, target
defence tools such as AdAware - hence the advice to run it in Safe
Mode. But where malware is concerned, Safe Mode isn't; it's a bit
less likely to run the malware on startup, but that's it.

>But when I booted into Safe Mode, my mouse wouldn't work (I couldn't click
>on "OK"). I couldn't get to Start, in order to shut down. Ctrl + Alt +
>Delete wouldn't work. I had to do a hard reboot.

USB mouse, some other sort of "needs special drivers to work" mouse,
or a mouse that can be relied upon to work in Safe Mode?

>I might want to use Safe Mode in the future for something REALLY important.

"Really important" = data recovery and tackling hostile software.

Windows *always* writes to HD, even in Safe Mode, so it's a bloody
menace in data recovery contexts.

Windows runs from files on the HD that can be altered or replaced by
malware, Safe Mode included, so it's a bloody menace if you are
chasing malicious software; even some commercial malware remains
active in Safe Mode, and thus able to hide or defy management.

Safe Mode is useful for relatively important matters, such as chasing
up device driver glitches. But in the face of malware or bad
hardware, Safe Mode isn't. As a Win98xx user, you have recourse to
DOS mode that is safer than Safe Mode for such things.




>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Gone to bloggery: http://cquirke.blogspot.com
>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

[thomas]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I did replace my mouse recently (but not my
keyboard). The replacement mouse also has a PS/2 Interface.

Thanks anyway.

thomas

"Richard G. Harper" > wrote in message
...
> Have you recently changed to a USB-connected mouse and keyboard? If so,
> does swapping them out for PS/2 equipment resolve your problem?
>
> --
> Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User]
> * PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
> * for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to.
> * My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/
> * HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
>
> "thomas" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I haven't had much reason to start my computer in Safe Mode, but when I
> >did,
> > it always worked. Today, I tried to use it. (It was recommended in a
> > security forum that I run the new version of Ad-Aware SE Personal
Edition
> > 1.05 in Safe Mode, because it was using too much of my available
memory.)
> >
> > But when I booted into Safe Mode, my mouse wouldn't work (I couldn't
click
> > on "OK"). I couldn't get to Start, in order to shut down. Ctrl + Alt +
> > Delete wouldn't work. I had to do a hard reboot.
> >
> > Tried a second time - same result.
> >
> > My Window98 SE starts normally and is working fine. So, apparently, is
> > everything else (except Ad-Aware).
> >
> > Any ideas? I might want to use Safe Mode in the future for something
> > REALLY
> > important.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > thomas
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[thomas]

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure this applies to me, as I did not replace
my keyboard and my new mouse also uses a PS/2 Interface.

thomas

"Jack E Martinelli" > wrote in message
...
> Following up Mr. Harper, if your BIOS is fairly new, the setup program
may
> contain a toggle to enable USB-legacy devices, such as the mouse and
> keyboard. Test for this possibility, also.
>
> And you are very correct about wanting to be able to use Safe Mode, when
> necessary, eg., to repair device drivers.
> --
> Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
> Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
> In Memorium: Alex Nichol
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
> Your cooperation is very appreciated.
> ------
> "Richard G. Harper" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Have you recently changed to a USB-connected mouse and keyboard? If so,
> > does swapping them out for PS/2 equipment resolve your problem?
> >
> > --
> > Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User]
> > * PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
> > * for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to.
> > * My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/
> > * HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> >
> >
> > "thomas" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >I haven't had much reason to start my computer in Safe Mode, but when I
> > >did,
> > > it always worked. Today, I tried to use it. (It was recommended in a
> > > security forum that I run the new version of Ad-Aware SE Personal
> Edition
> > > 1.05 in Safe Mode, because it was using too much of my available
> memory.)
> > >
> > > But when I booted into Safe Mode, my mouse wouldn't work (I couldn't
> click
> > > on "OK"). I couldn't get to Start, in order to shut down. Ctrl + Alt +
> > > Delete wouldn't work. I had to do a hard reboot.
> > >
> > > Tried a second time - same result.
> > >
> > > My Window98 SE starts normally and is working fine. So, apparently, is
> > > everything else (except Ad-Aware).
> > >
> > > Any ideas? I might want to use Safe Mode in the future for something
> > > REALLY important.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > thomas
> > >
>
>

[thomas]

Thanks for the reply. "Memory" is my word. (I guess it is a vague term.) A
message box pops up after about 48,000 items scanned with Ad-Aware. The
message says, "Low Resources" and that more than 90% is being used. I have
the MS Resource Meter in my taskbar. At about the exact moment that this
message box pops up, the green bars in the Resource completely disappear -
not even a yellow one shows. As soon as I cancel the scan and close
Ad-Aware, the green bars return and everything goes back to normal.

Someone in a security forum suggested scanning in Safe Mode, which I never
have had the opportunity to do.

(BTW, no other single program running alone causes this to happen. However,
in the past, when I have been running too many programs at the same time, I
have used up System Resources, and the green bars will drop and even display
occasional yellow ones.)

I guess I actually have two problems, the Ad-Aware issue and now the Safe
Mode malfunction. I can always uninstall Ad-Aware and try another spy-ware
program, like Spybot (as some forum members have suggested). But not being
able to start my computer in Safe Mode seems like a lot more important issue
to deal with first - hence I've come to this MS newsgroup for advise.

For the record, I am using Win 98 SE, with 248 MB RAM and a 10,000 GB hard
drive.

Your post contains a few terms that I am not familiar with. I'm going to
have to more closely study what you've written.

I was able to remove all of the malware that Ad-Aware found, using piecemeal
scanning - canceling and removing a few items at a time and then doing it
again, until I had removed them all. At the point that the Resources are
being used up, they are no further malware items found in the scan.

I just did a Trend HouseCall scan to confirm with AVG that my computer is
virus free. As I said, Ad-Aware has found nothing more to the point where it
stalls my system. A scan with a² comes up clean, as well. I have checked
with msconfig to make sure that no extra, unwanted stuff is running in the
background.

But what can be wrong with Safe Mode? Windows seems to be operating just
fine, otherwise.

thomas


"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" > wrote in
message ...
> On Mon, 9 May 2005 22:47:53 -0600, "thomas"
>
> >I haven't had much reason to start my computer in Safe Mode, but when I
did,
> >it always worked. Today, I tried to use it. (It was recommended in a
> >security forum that I run the new version of Ad-Aware SE Personal Edition
> >1.05 in Safe Mode, because it was using too much of my available memory.)
>
> More on "too much memory, please?
>
> Generally, apps don't run out of memory, because physical RAM is
> extended to HD via swap file. You'd have to be low on HD space or to
> have artificially limited swap file size (i.e. set a maximum limit) to
> have a genuine "out of memory" situation, unless the app concerned
> insists on locking itself into physical RAM (which is very rude).
>
> However, you may run out of resource heap space. The resource heaps
> are global memory stores for particular items, and some of these items
> are stored in "legacy" 64k heaps, to keep some badly-written Win3.yuk
> applications alive (parts of MS Office have been cited).
>
> There are other workspaces that may hit limits as well, such as SVGA
> workspace, maximum allowed space within registry structures, etc.
>
> Finally, malware can spoof system errors, and "out of memory" is often
> at the bottom of error-handling fall-through - i.e. "if this1, then
> report that1, if this2, then report that2, if this3, then report
> that3, else ASSume it's an out-of-memory error"
>
> have you formally excluded traditional malware? Circumstances that
> expose you to the commercial malware that AdAware scans for, may also
> expose you to "real" malware (viruses, trojans, worms) that AdAware
> will not manage, and which should be tackled formally:
>
> http://cquirke.mvps.org/9x/virtest.htm
>
> Note that many malware, both traditional and commercial, target
> defence tools such as AdAware - hence the advice to run it in Safe
> Mode. But where malware is concerned, Safe Mode isn't; it's a bit
> less likely to run the malware on startup, but that's it.
>
> >But when I booted into Safe Mode, my mouse wouldn't work (I couldn't
click
> >on "OK"). I couldn't get to Start, in order to shut down. Ctrl + Alt +
> >Delete wouldn't work. I had to do a hard reboot.
>
> USB mouse, some other sort of "needs special drivers to work" mouse,
> or a mouse that can be relied upon to work in Safe Mode?
>
> >I might want to use Safe Mode in the future for something REALLY
important.
>
> "Really important" = data recovery and tackling hostile software.
>
> Windows *always* writes to HD, even in Safe Mode, so it's a bloody
> menace in data recovery contexts.
>
> Windows runs from files on the HD that can be altered or replaced by
> malware, Safe Mode included, so it's a bloody menace if you are
> chasing malicious software; even some commercial malware remains
> active in Safe Mode, and thus able to hide or defy management.
>
> Safe Mode is useful for relatively important matters, such as chasing
> up device driver glitches. But in the face of malware or bad
> hardware, Safe Mode isn't. As a Win98xx user, you have recourse to
> DOS mode that is safer than Safe Mode for such things.
>
>
>
>
> >---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
> Gone to bloggery: http://cquirke.blogspot.com
> >---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

[thomas]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I did replace my mouse recently (but not my
keyboard). The replacement mouse also has a PS/2 Interface.

Thanks anyway.

thomas


"Richard G. Harper" > wrote in message
...
> Have you recently changed to a USB-connected mouse and keyboard? If so,
> does swapping them out for PS/2 equipment resolve your problem?
>
> --
> Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User]
> * PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
> * for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to.
> * My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/
> * HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
>
> "thomas" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I haven't had much reason to start my computer in Safe Mode, but when I
> >did,
> > it always worked. Today, I tried to use it. (It was recommended in a
> > security forum that I run the new version of Ad-Aware SE Personal
Edition
> > 1.05 in Safe Mode, because it was using too much of my available
memory.)
> >
> > But when I booted into Safe Mode, my mouse wouldn't work (I couldn't
click
> > on "OK"). I couldn't get to Start, in order to shut down. Ctrl + Alt +
> > Delete wouldn't work. I had to do a hard reboot.
> >
> > Tried a second time - same result.
> >
> > My Window98 SE starts normally and is working fine. So, apparently, is
> > everything else (except Ad-Aware).
> >
> > Any ideas? I might want to use Safe Mode in the future for something
> > REALLY
> > important.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > thomas
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[thomas]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I did replace my mouse recently (but not my
keyboard). The replacement mouse also has a PS/2 Interface.

Thanks anyway.

thomas


"Richard G. Harper" > wrote in message
...
> Have you recently changed to a USB-connected mouse and keyboard? If so,
> does swapping them out for PS/2 equipment resolve your problem?
>
> --
> Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User]
> * PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
> * for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to.
> * My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/
> * HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
>
> "thomas" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I haven't had much reason to start my computer in Safe Mode, but when I
> >did,
> > it always worked. Today, I tried to use it. (It was recommended in a
> > security forum that I run the new version of Ad-Aware SE Personal
Edition
> > 1.05 in Safe Mode, because it was using too much of my available
memory.)
> >
> > But when I booted into Safe Mode, my mouse wouldn't work (I couldn't
click
> > on "OK"). I couldn't get to Start, in order to shut down. Ctrl + Alt +
> > Delete wouldn't work. I had to do a hard reboot.
> >
> > Tried a second time - same result.
> >
> > My Window98 SE starts normally and is working fine. So, apparently, is
> > everything else (except Ad-Aware).
> >
> > Any ideas? I might want to use Safe Mode in the future for something
> > REALLY
> > important.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > thomas
> >
> >
> >
>
>