Oddities while installing 98

[jane]

Hi guys (again),
I knew I had 2 posts to make tonight.

I was at a friends today and because he has two HD's we played.
We formatted his drive then tried to put Win98se on it. We came
across some odd things and still dont have OS on it.
I did what I was taught here, ie, ::::::
1)Boot from start-up floppy
2)Switch to C:\
3)MD WIN98
4)CD F:\WIN98
5)COPY *.* C:\WIN98
6)Remove Floppy
7)ctrl+alt+del
8)should boot from C:
9)CD WIN98
10)SETUP.

Except I/We couldnt get past (3).
It refused to recognise the F:drive.
(he has a C & a D drive, so the ramdrive should have 'fabricated' an
Edrive and hence the Win98 files from the CD-ROM should have
been the F:\).
It kept saying there was no Fdrive.
I double checked everything. I did DIR on C:\, the folder was there.
I did DIR on E:\,.......ramdrive stuff was there.
Try to change to Fdrive again......... Nope, wasnt going to happen.
After many attempts, we decided to reboot (for about the umpteenth
time) and instal OS *with* CDROM support.
As soon as Dos had run its usual tests and etc, it would take us to
a blue screen (wonder why Bill chose Blue) stating that there was
already an OS............... "piffle" I said.!

We did this for most of the afternoon, checking and re-checking.
The drive was clean, the start-up disk was fine, the Win98se disk
was in the ROM, Everything was fine except for it flipping well
doing what we asked it to.

help.

thanks,

regards Jane

[Jeff Richards]

What was the error when you tried to access F:? That will tell you whether
the drive exists, but the access attempt failed, or the drive doesn't exist.

Also, your step 4 should be
4a F:
4b CD\WIN98

What is the message that is displayed during boot about installing the
CD-ROM device drivers, and MSCDEX? There should be a message confirming the
driver installed OK and a message that indicates the drive selected for the
CD-ROM - some boot disks use a different letter, such as R, instead of
defaulting to the next available.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"jane" > wrote in message
...
> Hi guys (again),
> I knew I had 2 posts to make tonight.
>
> I was at a friends today and because he has two HD's we played.
> We formatted his drive then tried to put Win98se on it. We came
> across some odd things and still dont have OS on it.
> I did what I was taught here, ie, ::::::
> 1)Boot from start-up floppy
> 2)Switch to C:\
> 3)MD WIN98
> 4)CD F:\WIN98
> 5)COPY *.* C:\WIN98
> 6)Remove Floppy
> 7)ctrl+alt+del
> 8)should boot from C:
> 9)CD WIN98
> 10)SETUP.
>
> Except I/We couldnt get past (3).
> It refused to recognise the F:drive.
> (he has a C & a D drive, so the ramdrive should have 'fabricated' an
> Edrive and hence the Win98 files from the CD-ROM should have
> been the F:\).
> It kept saying there was no Fdrive.
> I double checked everything. I did DIR on C:\, the folder was there.
> I did DIR on E:\,.......ramdrive stuff was there.
> Try to change to Fdrive again......... Nope, wasnt going to happen.
> After many attempts, we decided to reboot (for about the umpteenth
> time) and instal OS *with* CDROM support.
> As soon as Dos had run its usual tests and etc, it would take us to
> a blue screen (wonder why Bill chose Blue) stating that there was
> already an OS............... "piffle" I said.!
>
> We did this for most of the afternoon, checking and re-checking.
> The drive was clean, the start-up disk was fine, the Win98se disk
> was in the ROM, Everything was fine except for it flipping well
> doing what we asked it to.

[Gary S. Terhune]

"jane" > wrote in message
...
> Hi guys (again),
> I knew I had 2 posts to make tonight.
>
> I was at a friends today and because he has two HD's we played.
> We formatted his drive then tried to put Win98se on it.

*How* did you format it? With the /s switch? From inside Windows or from
the floppy boot disk?

>We came
> across some odd things and still dont have OS on it.
> I did what I was taught here, ie, ::::::
> 1)Boot from start-up floppy

*With* CDROM support?

> 2)Switch to C:\
> 3)MD WIN98
> 4)CD F:\WIN98
> 5)COPY *.* C:\WIN98
> 6)Remove Floppy
> 7)ctrl+alt+del
> 8)should boot from C:
> 9)CD WIN98
> 10)SETUP.
>
> Except I/We couldnt get past (3).
> It refused to recognise the F:drive.
> (he has a C & a D drive, so the ramdrive should have 'fabricated' an
> Edrive and hence the Win98 files from the CD-ROM should have
> been the F:\).
> It kept saying there was no Fdrive.

The floppy boot system won't find a CD drive if you didn't start *with*
CDROM support. If you did that, and it still doesn't find the CD drive,
then the problem is that the CD drive is one that isn't supported by the
default drivers that are loaded by the Startup disk with CDROM Support
enabled. One of the most common reasons for this is if the CD drive is
not a standard ATAPI/IDE or SCSI drive--like some of the really old
Soundblaster drives that ran straight off the sound card. You have to
determine the make/model of the CD drive, and how it's connected, and
then alter the Startup floppy to load the proper drivers.

However, from what you say below, my guess is that the Startup disk does
support the CD drive and that you simply didn't enable CDROM support at
startup. If you want to acess the CD drive, you need that support.

> I double checked everything. I did DIR on C:\, the folder was there.
> I did DIR on E:\,.......ramdrive stuff was there.
> Try to change to Fdrive again......... Nope, wasnt going to
happen.
> After many attempts, we decided to reboot (for about the umpteenth
> time) and instal OS *with* CDROM support.
> As soon as Dos had run its usual tests and etc, it would take us to
> a blue screen (wonder why Bill chose Blue) stating that there was
> already an OS............... "piffle" I said.!

Well, *is* there already a Windows system installed on the drive? Or on
*any* drive that's attached and visible?

>
> We did this for most of the afternoon, checking and re-checking.
> The drive was clean, the start-up disk was fine, the Win98se disk
> was in the ROM, Everything was fine except for it flipping well
> doing what we asked it to.

Hey, it tries, but you have to give it the tools it needs, and the
proper directions, if you want it to do what you want it to do, <s>.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

[Lee]

jane wrote:
> Hi guys (again),
> I knew I had 2 posts to make tonight.
>
> I was at a friends today and because he has two HD's we played.
> We formatted his drive then tried to put Win98se on it. We came
> across some odd things and still dont have OS on it.
> I did what I was taught here, ie, ::::::
> 1)Boot from start-up floppy
> 2)Switch to C:\
> 3)MD WIN98
> 4)CD F:\WIN98
> 5)COPY *.* C:\WIN98
> 6)Remove Floppy
> 7)ctrl+alt+del
> 8)should boot from C:
> 9)CD WIN98
> 10)SETUP.
>
> Except I/We couldnt get past (3).
> It refused to recognise the F:drive.
> (he has a C & a D drive, so the ramdrive should have 'fabricated' an
> Edrive and hence the Win98 files from the CD-ROM should have
> been the F:\).
> It kept saying there was no Fdrive.
> I double checked everything. I did DIR on C:\, the folder was there.
> I did DIR on E:\,.......ramdrive stuff was there.
> Try to change to Fdrive again......... Nope, wasnt going to
happen.
> After many attempts, we decided to reboot (for about the umpteenth
> time) and instal OS *with* CDROM support.
> As soon as Dos had run its usual tests and etc, it would take us to
> a blue screen (wonder why Bill chose Blue) stating that there was
> already an OS............... "piffle" I said.!
>
> We did this for most of the afternoon, checking and re-checking.
> The drive was clean, the start-up disk was fine, the Win98se disk
> was in the ROM, Everything was fine except for it flipping
well
> doing what we asked it to.
>
> help.
>
> thanks,
>
> regards Jane

In DOS you can't do your steps 3 to 4 like that. You must first switch
drives to F:

3) MD win98
3a) F:
4) CD WIN98

would have put you at the CDROM's WIN98 folder to do the copy *.* from.
You can't just change to any directory on any drive with one command
line. It has to be drive change first and then to any folder on that
drive.

You should have been booting with CDROM support all along as you would
never get an F: drive without doing that. The boot up process gives
you a few hints about what's going on unless you are using a custom
boot disk and not the standard 98 one. It should tell you what your
ramdrive letter is and when Mscdex.exe loads it should also tell you
what your CDROM letter is. Any errors would also show up as text while
the boot disk grinds away. You could do DIR F: to see if the CDROM
drive is working or not.

It sounds like maybe you guys formatted the wrong hard drive? You
can't install windows to the D: drive without some fancy doings that
will only get in the way if disscused now. You'll have to format the
C: drive and install Windows there or swap the drives around via their
jumpers or BIOS boot order which should be A:, C:, whatever. Double
check your boot order in the BIOS setup screens.

1) boot floppy with CDROM support
2) at A:> prompt do DIR C: to see what is on the hard drive first
3) format c: /u /c
4) c:
5) md win98
6) f:
7) cd win98
8) copy *.* c:\win98
9) c:
10) cd win98
11) setup

Your number 8 above is wrong and I don't know who told you that the
hard drive would boot unless /s switch was part of the format command
which I strongly advise newbies to never use. It's simply not needed
and only causes grief and catastrophe to the understanding of what's
really going on and which device is booting the machine. Unless you
really want to be totally confused at this point, don't format with the
/s switch or do a SYS C: command. Hope that gets you a little closer.

[jane]

(tail very well wedged between quivering legs),,,,

I think all you guys have pointed out something we did wrong.

Jeff......
1)I cant remember the exact message, but I think it just said that
the F:drive was not accessable
1a)We never got a MSCDEX, only something that began with OEM
1b)Yes, it looks like we missed step 4a. But, we did try to access
the F:drive in the manner you mentioned, but as you will see
further on in this note it was never going to happen due to what
we did or didnt do.

Gary.....
1) (speaking very embarrased), no, I dont think we used Enable with
Rom support at *that* stage.
2)no, there definately wasnt an OS on drive, but I guess the comp
didnt really know what else to say to point out our error.
3)yes, you are right. the machine cannot function unless, me, the user
give it the correct instructions. (boy, this is hard to type, am so
embarrassed.)

Lee....
1)At the stage of #8 we thought we would be in the Fdrive at the
Win98 folder, but never got that far.
2)At 'format' stage, it was done like this... " Format C: /S".
I dont really understand what you are saying when in one breath
you are saying the drive wouldnt boot *unless* it had the /s files,
and in another you are saying it is unadvisable for *newbies* to
make use of it.
I would love to know why some "guru's" who have internet sites
strictly on these type of topics state that the S switch Must be used
and others say avoid it like the plague......... just what the heck
does it or doesnt it do in the first place.
3)no, we didnt use the SYS C command.

Phew, guess thats about it.
I wont post on this topic until I am able to visit him again, hopefully
on the advice given in this thread we will get it going first time.

As you have probably all noticed via a Post next to this one, I am
personally wanting to instal XP onto my system for learning purposes.
Hugh said I should shoot off to a couple of sites he posted for me,
but as can be seen from this thread alone, these sites dont always
give correct information and also not in the order things are to be
done...... hope some of you offer some advice on my Personal
situation as per other post.

Thanks guys.....

regards Jane

[Gary S. Terhune]

"jane" > wrote in message
...
> (tail very well wedged between quivering legs),,,,

Awwww... That's cute.

>
> I think all you guys have pointed out something we did wrong.
>
> Jeff......
> 1)I cant remember the exact message, but I think it just said that
> the F:drive was not accessable
> 1a)We never got a MSCDEX, only something that began with OEM
> 1b)Yes, it looks like we missed step 4a. But, we did try to access
> the F:drive in the manner you mentioned, but as you will see
> further on in this note it was never going to happen due to what
> we did or didnt do.

The CD (Change Directory) command can't be used to go from one drive to
another. You have to first change drives, then CD to the directory you
want.

F:
CD WIN98

>
> Gary.....
> 1) (speaking very embarrased), no, I dont think we used Enable with
> Rom support at *that* stage.
> 2)no, there definately wasnt an OS on drive, but I guess the comp
> didnt really know what else to say to point out our error.
> 3)yes, you are right. the machine cannot function unless, me, the user
> give it the correct instructions. (boy, this is hard to type, am so
> embarrassed.)

All CD Support does is load drivers for the CD drive(s). It doesn't care
*why* you want to use the CD drive--there's no magic involved that has
anything to do with running Setup from the installation CD. If you want
to get to the CD drive, you have to enable CD Support at startup.

>
> Lee....
> 1)At the stage of #8 we thought we would be in the Fdrive at the
> Win98 folder, but never got that far.
> 2)At 'format' stage, it was done like this... " Format C: /S".
> I dont really understand what you are saying when in one breath
> you are saying the drive wouldnt boot *unless* it had the /s files,
> and in another you are saying it is unadvisable for *newbies* to
> make use of it.
> I would love to know why some "guru's" who have internet sites
> strictly on these type of topics state that the S switch Must be
used
> and others say avoid it like the plague......... just what the
heck
> does it or doesnt it do in the first place.
> 3)no, we didnt use the SYS C command.

Provided you keep good track of your partitions and know which one is
"Active" (that's a technical term, denoting which partition on the drive
is the one that is to be booted), and you are otherwise well-organized,
there's no reason at all not to use the /s switch with Format. But
unless you're installing *in_this_particular_manner*, it's not needed.
And when something's not needed, it's wisest not to use it or enable it.

>
> Phew, guess thats about it.
> I wont post on this topic until I am able to visit him again,
hopefully
> on the advice given in this thread we will get it going first time.
>
> As you have probably all noticed via a Post next to this one, I am
> personally wanting to instal XP onto my system for learning purposes.
> Hugh said I should shoot off to a couple of sites he posted for me,
> but as can be seen from this thread alone, these sites dont always
> give correct information and also not in the order things are to be
> done...... hope some of you offer some advice on my Personal
> situation as per other post.

The sites Hugh recommended are *Microsoft* sites, and he wouldn't have
recommended them if he didn't think they were accurate. In that
particular case, I think Hugh was simply suggesting two decent places
for you to start your education in multi-booting, and not necessarily
the be-all and end-all, everything-you-need-to-know answers to your
questions.

Part of your ongoing problems with your learning experience here, Jane,
is that you tend to mix suggestions and procedures. There are many
different ways of doing the same thing in Windows. That's one of the
things that makes it so "user friendly" and popular. But if you are
going to use a particular procedure, unless you know a lot about what
you're doing, don't mix in pieces of other procedures. Find the one that
best suits your needs and use *only* the directions for that procedure.
That way, you have a known baseline from which to operate.

You also need to know *why* you are doing something--what the procedure
will produce. Computing is (generally) quite linear. It doesn't help
that Microsoft (and others) engage in "idiot-proofing" and technically
inaccurate but "friendly" language to describe their procedures. But if
you can keep the terms straight, and you understand what a procedure
really does--if you can "think it through"-- well, that's the first real
step in learning computer programming and diagnosis.

In the case at hand, it isn't clear from your post that the *only*
partition (aka drive) that the system can see is the newly formatted
partition. If it isn't, if there are other partitions or drives on the
system that can be accessed, then you are treading on much more
dangerous turf--one misstep and you can trash the existing system. Which
is why, I think, Lee cautioned against using the method you were
attempting.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

[jane]

Lee Said>>>>>>>>>>>>

> Your number 8 above is wrong and I don't know who told you that the
> hard drive would boot unless /s switch was part of the format command
> which I strongly advise newbies to never use. It's simply not needed
> and only causes grief and catastrophe to the understanding of what's
> really going on and which device is booting the machine. Unless you
> really want to be totally confused at this point, don't format with the
> /s switch or do a SYS C: command. Hope that gets you a little closer.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------

**Hi again Lee,,,,,,
I went and did a search for where I got the info on making a file on
the Cdrive and doing what I did. Here is the result of my search:::**

The below info is from a thread called
**Fatal Error, I am stumped on this one**
-----------------
Either way is fine, Jane. Using the /s switch makes the partition
bootable, but Setup does this anyway. When it's most useful is when you
copy the installation files to the hard drive, first, then boot to the
HD and run Setup without using a floppy boot disk or the CD drive.

Gary -- 24/01/05
---------------------
Yes, that's what I mean, though there's a few other files besides the
CAB files. Here's how:

Boot to the Windows Startup floppy, FDISK, reboot as required, then
FORMAT, using the /s switch on C\, but not on any other partitions (if
present.) Then, while still booted to the floppy, run the following
commands, using the appropriate letter for the CD drive where I have
written "cdletter". I'll also assume this is a single-partition drive,
but if it's not, it's even better to copy these files to somewhere
*other_than* C:\. Adjust the commands appropriately. Also, this assumes
a standard Windows 98 Installation CD, where the main setup files are
located in \Win98\. Remember to use colons after drive letters.

c:
md WIN98 (I use upper-case so that the directory looks better in
Windows)
cdletter: (That's "cd drive letter" followed by a colon)
cd win98 (That's "Change Directory to \win98\ folder on th eCD)
copy *.* c:\win98 (there's spaces in there, before and after *.*)

This will only copy files, not sub-directories, and that's OK. Good, in
fact. When the copy job is finished, eject the floppy disk, then restart
using C-A-D. When the C:\> prompt appears, run the following commands:

cd win98
setup

Gary -- 24/02/05
---------------

[Lee]

Ok very good, Rom is not the same as CDROM stop using one term for the
other right away, and /s files is not what I said. /s switch when used
with format command transfers system files to the formated hard drive
and makes the hard drive bootable. SYS C: command will do the same
thing. Avoid using either method to get the hard drive bootable
because at this point you really don't have enough knowledge to discern
exactly what device is booting the machine? And which device is doing
the booting is very important for *US* to understand in order to avoid
so many complications it boggles the mind, and eventually help you to
your goal. Later when you've done this a couple of times, please use
the /s switch and/or SYS C: and see what that does just for grins. For
now please only boot with the standard 98 startup disk otherwise known
as the 98 boot disk, because we all know how it boots and sets up the
ramdrive and shifts the CDROM drive down one letter and exactly what
prompts you will see in the process and can address those prompts when
missing or different as they would be from any other booting device.

If you don't have system files on the hard drive then it can't be
booting the machine into DOS. And that's the easy way around a
potentially very confusing situation.

Guru's like to show off sometimes and post way too complicated schemes
and methods to achive that end. 98 doesn't need a 'sys'ed C drive nor
does 95 so I figure the 'tip' comes from Win3.1 days and is thus a bit
long in the tooth. It also adds to newbie confusion and I'm all
against that. There are also a lot of old sites out there that have
not so relevent anymore advice, you'll have to learn how to spot them
by lurking in these groups and noting which are linked to the most
often and which are not.

If you have a bootable CD and the boot order in the BIOS is such that
CDROM comes before floppy (typical today, perhaps even the default
setting? - so check that first, please) then you may boot with the CD
or the floppy. If this is the case, Windows setup will tell you to
remove the floppy when the times comes for the first reboot. 98 setup
fails to tell you to also remove the CD from the CDROM drive because
bootable CDs were a new thing when 98 came out and this problem didn't
exist prior to that. But leaving the bootable CD in the CDROM drive is
the same thing as leaving the floppy in the floppy drive and this leads
to a confusing situation because of a not so good prompt built into the
setup program. And that's more confusion we just don't need. At your
end I can't imagine what you would think of it were that to happen.
And being a newbie I wonder if you could tell if you had a bootable OEM
CD or a non-bootable retail CD without help? OEM CDs will say on them
'For distribution only with a new PC.' Retail CDs will not say that.
And of course legal copies of either won't say anything on them so even
more potential confusion. Today there is just too many bootable
devices that can get in the way of us helping - if we are confused and
thus wrong how can we possibly help?

You should have seen Mscdex.exe text showing you the CDROM drive letter
if you chose (1) boot with CDROM support. Otherwise you don't have a
CDROM drive and can't use it to copy the cab files from. Please note
if he has two or more CDROM drives of any type including DVD drives.

My XP advice would be to install 98 first and then just drop in the XP
CD and let it take over the system. This method will install a boot
loader program such that at boot time instead of DOS you get the boot
loader that asks you which OS you want to boot, XP or 98? And this way
you get both OS on the same machine. All versions of the XP CD are
bootable but are properly prompted to remove the CD when appropriate
unlike 98. I do not have XP and my advice comes only from NT 4.0 which
also sets up a boot loader over a pre-existing 9x OS. Best of luck on
this quest.

[jane]

> > (tail very well wedged between quivering legs),,,,
>
> Awwww... That's cute.

nah, puppies is cute.

[Gary S. Terhune]

Lee, you figure wrong about the "tip being from Win3.1 days." There are
perfectly good reasons for using the method Jane describes for setting
up WIN98 (or any other Windows system, for that matter.)

1. The installation files are placed on the hard drive, thus disposing
of the need to forever have the CD handy in order to install components.
It's also less wear and tear on the CD and the CD drive if you simply
run one file copy operation instead of having it accessed here and there
and back and forth by Setup.

2. Running Setup from the hard drive is faster and avoids potential
errors while reading from the CD. Such errors are common, and one of the
major causes of installation failures.

3. RAM isn't being consumed by a startup disk RAM drive and can be put
to better use.

Jane had a couple of things wrong--didn't follow instructions to the
letter--but there's nothing inherently *more* risky in the procedure
than there is in any installation procedure. And while you may have had
trouble understanding what was going on from her description, I had no
trouble at all. Her usage in saying that "the drive wouldn't boot
*unless* it had the /s files" was also grammatically and technically
correct. The "format /s" procedure places the "/s files" on the target
partition, and it won't boot without the "/s files" being present (and
in their proper places, though that isn't germane to the conversation.)

PS--If you don't have first-hand knowledge of XP installation, perhaps
you should refrain from advising on the matter. There is no prompt to
remove the bootable CD from the system because the XP CDs have a boot
prompt--if you don't "press any key" when prompted, the CD boot is
cancelled.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Lee" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ok very good, Rom is not the same as CDROM stop using one term for the
> other right away, and /s files is not what I said. /s switch when
used
> with format command transfers system files to the formated hard drive
> and makes the hard drive bootable. SYS C: command will do the same
> thing. Avoid using either method to get the hard drive bootable
> because at this point you really don't have enough knowledge to
discern
> exactly what device is booting the machine? And which device is doing
> the booting is very important for *US* to understand in order to avoid
> so many complications it boggles the mind, and eventually help you to
> your goal. Later when you've done this a couple of times, please use
> the /s switch and/or SYS C: and see what that does just for grins.
For
> now please only boot with the standard 98 startup disk otherwise known
> as the 98 boot disk, because we all know how it boots and sets up the
> ramdrive and shifts the CDROM drive down one letter and exactly what
> prompts you will see in the process and can address those prompts when
> missing or different as they would be from any other booting device.
>
> If you don't have system files on the hard drive then it can't be
> booting the machine into DOS. And that's the easy way around a
> potentially very confusing situation.
>
> Guru's like to show off sometimes and post way too complicated schemes
> and methods to achive that end. 98 doesn't need a 'sys'ed C drive nor
> does 95 so I figure the 'tip' comes from Win3.1 days and is thus a bit
> long in the tooth. It also adds to newbie confusion and I'm all
> against that. There are also a lot of old sites out there that have
> not so relevent anymore advice, you'll have to learn how to spot them
> by lurking in these groups and noting which are linked to the most
> often and which are not.
>
> If you have a bootable CD and the boot order in the BIOS is such that
> CDROM comes before floppy (typical today, perhaps even the default
> setting? - so check that first, please) then you may boot with the CD
> or the floppy. If this is the case, Windows setup will tell you to
> remove the floppy when the times comes for the first reboot. 98 setup
> fails to tell you to also remove the CD from the CDROM drive because
> bootable CDs were a new thing when 98 came out and this problem didn't
> exist prior to that. But leaving the bootable CD in the CDROM drive
is
> the same thing as leaving the floppy in the floppy drive and this
leads
> to a confusing situation because of a not so good prompt built into
the
> setup program. And that's more confusion we just don't need. At your
> end I can't imagine what you would think of it were that to happen.
> And being a newbie I wonder if you could tell if you had a bootable
OEM
> CD or a non-bootable retail CD without help? OEM CDs will say on them
> 'For distribution only with a new PC.' Retail CDs will not say that.
> And of course legal copies of either won't say anything on them so
even
> more potential confusion. Today there is just too many bootable
> devices that can get in the way of us helping - if we are confused and
> thus wrong how can we possibly help?
>
> You should have seen Mscdex.exe text showing you the CDROM drive
letter
> if you chose (1) boot with CDROM support. Otherwise you don't have a
> CDROM drive and can't use it to copy the cab files from. Please note
> if he has two or more CDROM drives of any type including DVD drives.
>
> My XP advice would be to install 98 first and then just drop in the XP
> CD and let it take over the system. This method will install a boot
> loader program such that at boot time instead of DOS you get the boot
> loader that asks you which OS you want to boot, XP or 98? And this
way
> you get both OS on the same machine. All versions of the XP CD are
> bootable but are properly prompted to remove the CD when appropriate
> unlike 98. I do not have XP and my advice comes only from NT 4.0
which
> also sets up a boot loader over a pre-existing 9x OS. Best of luck on
> this quest.
>

[jane]

Hi lee,
you is one fiesty gal, or is lee a male name,
in oz it can be either.

thanks for input

regards Jane

"Lee" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ok very good, Rom is not the same as CDROM stop using one term for the
> other right away, and /s files is not what I said. /s switch when used
> with format command transfers system files to the formated hard drive
> and makes the hard drive bootable. SYS C: command will do the same
> thing. Avoid using either method to get the hard drive bootable
> because at this point you really don't have enough knowledge to discern
> exactly what device is booting the machine? And which device is doing
> the booting is very important for *US* to understand in order to avoid
> so many complications it boggles the mind, and eventually help you to
> your goal. Later when you've done this a couple of times, please use
> the /s switch and/or SYS C: and see what that does just for grins. For
> now please only boot with the standard 98 startup disk otherwise known
> as the 98 boot disk, because we all know how it boots and sets up the
> ramdrive and shifts the CDROM drive down one letter and exactly what
> prompts you will see in the process and can address those prompts when
> missing or different as they would be from any other booting device.
>
> If you don't have system files on the hard drive then it can't be
> booting the machine into DOS. And that's the easy way around a
> potentially very confusing situation.
>
> Guru's like to show off sometimes and post way too complicated schemes
> and methods to achive that end. 98 doesn't need a 'sys'ed C drive nor
> does 95 so I figure the 'tip' comes from Win3.1 days and is thus a bit
> long in the tooth. It also adds to newbie confusion and I'm all
> against that. There are also a lot of old sites out there that have
> not so relevent anymore advice, you'll have to learn how to spot them
> by lurking in these groups and noting which are linked to the most
> often and which are not.
>
> If you have a bootable CD and the boot order in the BIOS is such that
> CDROM comes before floppy (typical today, perhaps even the default
> setting? - so check that first, please) then you may boot with the CD
> or the floppy. If this is the case, Windows setup will tell you to
> remove the floppy when the times comes for the first reboot. 98 setup
> fails to tell you to also remove the CD from the CDROM drive because
> bootable CDs were a new thing when 98 came out and this problem didn't
> exist prior to that. But leaving the bootable CD in the CDROM drive is
> the same thing as leaving the floppy in the floppy drive and this leads
> to a confusing situation because of a not so good prompt built into the
> setup program. And that's more confusion we just don't need. At your
> end I can't imagine what you would think of it were that to happen.
> And being a newbie I wonder if you could tell if you had a bootable OEM
> CD or a non-bootable retail CD without help? OEM CDs will say on them
> 'For distribution only with a new PC.' Retail CDs will not say that.
> And of course legal copies of either won't say anything on them so even
> more potential confusion. Today there is just too many bootable
> devices that can get in the way of us helping - if we are confused and
> thus wrong how can we possibly help?
>
> You should have seen Mscdex.exe text showing you the CDROM drive letter
> if you chose (1) boot with CDROM support. Otherwise you don't have a
> CDROM drive and can't use it to copy the cab files from. Please note
> if he has two or more CDROM drives of any type including DVD drives.
>
> My XP advice would be to install 98 first and then just drop in the XP
> CD and let it take over the system. This method will install a boot
> loader program such that at boot time instead of DOS you get the boot
> loader that asks you which OS you want to boot, XP or 98? And this way
> you get both OS on the same machine. All versions of the XP CD are
> bootable but are properly prompted to remove the CD when appropriate
> unlike 98. I do not have XP and my advice comes only from NT 4.0 which
> also sets up a boot loader over a pre-existing 9x OS. Best of luck on
> this quest.
>

[PCR]

| You can't just change to any directory on any drive with one command
| line. It has to be drive change first and then to any folder on that
| drive.

Actually, it can be done in either order, CD may be first or second...

C:\>dir F:
Directory of F:\
MYDOCU~1 <DIR> 02-10-05 1:15a My Documents
MYDOWN~1 <DIR> 02-10-05 1:16a My Downloads
OPTIONS <DIR> 02-10-05 1:18a OPTIONS
0 file(s) 0 bytes
3 dir(s) 7,526.39 MB free

C:\>cd F:\options

C:\>F:

F:\OPTIONS>


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"Lee" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| jane wrote:
| > Hi guys (again),
| > I knew I had 2 posts to make tonight.
| >
| > I was at a friends today and because he has two HD's we played.
| > We formatted his drive then tried to put Win98se on it. We came
| > across some odd things and still dont have OS on it.
| > I did what I was taught here, ie, ::::::
| > 1)Boot from start-up floppy
| > 2)Switch to C:\
| > 3)MD WIN98
| > 4)CD F:\WIN98
| > 5)COPY *.* C:\WIN98
| > 6)Remove Floppy
| > 7)ctrl+alt+del
| > 8)should boot from C:
| > 9)CD WIN98
| > 10)SETUP.
| >
| > Except I/We couldnt get past (3).
| > It refused to recognise the F:drive.
| > (he has a C & a D drive, so the ramdrive should have 'fabricated' an
| > Edrive and hence the Win98 files from the CD-ROM should have
| > been the F:\).
| > It kept saying there was no Fdrive.
| > I double checked everything. I did DIR on C:\, the folder was
there.
| > I did DIR on E:\,.......ramdrive stuff was there.
| > Try to change to Fdrive again......... Nope, wasnt going to
| happen.
| > After many attempts, we decided to reboot (for about the umpteenth
| > time) and instal OS *with* CDROM support.
| > As soon as Dos had run its usual tests and etc, it would take us to
| > a blue screen (wonder why Bill chose Blue) stating that there was
| > already an OS............... "piffle" I said.!
| >
| > We did this for most of the afternoon, checking and re-checking.
| > The drive was clean, the start-up disk was fine, the Win98se disk
| > was in the ROM, Everything was fine except for it flipping
| well
| > doing what we asked it to.
| >
| > help.
| >
| > thanks,
| >
| > regards Jane
|
| In DOS you can't do your steps 3 to 4 like that. You must first
switch
| drives to F:
|
| 3) MD win98
| 3a) F:
| 4) CD WIN98
|
| would have put you at the CDROM's WIN98 folder to do the copy *.*
from.
| You can't just change to any directory on any drive with one command
| line. It has to be drive change first and then to any folder on that
| drive.
|
| You should have been booting with CDROM support all along as you would
| never get an F: drive without doing that. The boot up process gives
| you a few hints about what's going on unless you are using a custom
| boot disk and not the standard 98 one. It should tell you what your
| ramdrive letter is and when Mscdex.exe loads it should also tell you
| what your CDROM letter is. Any errors would also show up as text
while
| the boot disk grinds away. You could do DIR F: to see if the CDROM
| drive is working or not.
|
| It sounds like maybe you guys formatted the wrong hard drive? You
| can't install windows to the D: drive without some fancy doings that
| will only get in the way if disscused now. You'll have to format the
| C: drive and install Windows there or swap the drives around via their
| jumpers or BIOS boot order which should be A:, C:, whatever. Double
| check your boot order in the BIOS setup screens.
|
| 1) boot floppy with CDROM support
| 2) at A:> prompt do DIR C: to see what is on the hard drive first
| 3) format c: /u /c
| 4) c:
| 5) md win98
| 6) f:
| 7) cd win98
| 8) copy *.* c:\win98
| 9) c:
| 10) cd win98
| 11) setup
|
| Your number 8 above is wrong and I don't know who told you that the
| hard drive would boot unless /s switch was part of the format command
| which I strongly advise newbies to never use. It's simply not needed
| and only causes grief and catastrophe to the understanding of what's
| really going on and which device is booting the machine. Unless you
| really want to be totally confused at this point, don't format with
the
| /s switch or do a SYS C: command. Hope that gets you a little closer.
|

[Hugh Candlin]

"jane" > wrote in message
...
>
> I think all you guys have pointed out something we did wrong.
>
> Jeff......
> 1)I cant remember the exact message, but I think it just said that
> the F:drive was not accessable

Was there a disc in the CDROM drive?

[Lee]

I had no trouble understanding what her problem was, I am not confused.
But I would be as soon I wasn't sure how she was booting. She asked
me why some do it one way and why I recommended that she not boot from
the hard drive. Avoiding potential confusion was my answer to that but
in the process of answering her, I apparently confused you? If she is
not going to follow instructions exactly from whatever source, she is
bound for confusion at some point, to wit - this entire thread it turns
out.

Points 1 and 2 I am in favor of which leads me to think that I confused
you somewhat. I understand the purpose of both and agree with you
totally on both points. But I don't think even a 3 meg ramdrive would
compromise a windows 98 installation during the intial setup phase, so
we have to part ways at your 3rd point. My advice on XP installation
amounted to one point, let it infect your current 98 system so as to
have the dual boot option of XP and 98 choices. I'll not refrain from
giving that advice but we all appreciate your efforts in trying to
limit the clutter around here. I don't have to have XP to know that a
dual boot system would be much handier to have, of course, Jane has to
do the homework to find out if she has enough room for it and where/how
to allow it to live there, if her machine can use XP in the first place
and many other issues which I promise I will NOT comment on.

[Lee]

You are welcome Jane even though you took me as a feisty female when
I'm anything but that on both counts. I simply couldn't let you get
away with hacking up a new lingo term when Rom was already taken. Best
of luck with both 98 and XP.

[Lee]

Jeeze, PCR. Only a mystic or a batch writer would be changing
directories on a drive he wasn't even at yet. Since when did you start
grinding your pencils this sharp? Those can be dangerous like that.
I'll try to be more exact next time if you'll let me go this time.

[PCR]

I've been spelling "Jeeze": Geez. Yours looks better, so let's just call
it even. I have to go wash my bloody, leaden fingers, anyhow. OK, then.

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"Lee" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| Jeeze, PCR. Only a mystic or a batch writer would be changing
| directories on a drive he wasn't even at yet. Since when did you
start
| grinding your pencils this sharp? Those can be dangerous like that.
| I'll try to be more exact next time if you'll let me go this time.
|

[jane]

Hi All,
Its late and I'm going to college tomorrow.
I have two hours between lessons after lunch in which time I am
going back to friends to try again to instal win98se using garys
version of makeing a folder and intalling the cab-files into it.
Can anyone here please give me a 1 thru 10 Process on how to do
this properly.?
I only have 11 hours before I have to leave, I will hopefully check
early tomorrow to find a response or two

thanks

regards Jane

[Hugh Candlin]

"jane" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All,
> Its late and I'm going to college tomorrow.
> I have two hours between lessons after lunch in which time I am
> going back to friends to try again to instal win98se using garys
> version of makeing a folder and intalling the cab-files into it.
> Can anyone here please give me a 1 thru 10 Process on how to do
> this properly.?
> I only have 11 hours before I have to leave, I will hopefully check
> early tomorrow to find a response or two
>
> thanks
>
> regards Jane

On a working system:
1 Create a Windows 98 boot floppy
2 Remove the floppy and mark it Standard Boot Floppy
3 Create a second Windows 98 boot floppy
4 Now delete all files on the 2nd floppy EXCEPT:
= AUTOEXEC.BAT
= COMMAND.COM
= CONFIG.SYS
= FORMAT.COM
= HIMEM.SYS
= IO.SYS
= MSCDEX.EXE
= MSDOS.SYS
= OAKCDROM.SYS
= RESTART.COM
= SCANDISK.EXE
= SCANDISK.INI
= SYS.COM
(You can skip Step #4 if you like)
5 Right-click on AUTOEXEC.BAT and select Edit
6 Delete the content of AUTOEXEC.BAT
7 Copy and paste the following into AUTOEXEC.BAT
SYS C:
LH A:\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001
MD C:\WIN98
D:
CD \WIN98
COPY D:\WIN98\*.* C:\WIN98
C:
CD \WIN98
SETUP
[Note: I have double-spaced the commands to help
with readability, but you can single-space]
[Note: Make sure that you include the colons -
they are very easy to miss if you type
the commands instead of using copy/paste]
6 Close AUTOEXEC.BAT
7 Remove the floppy and mark it Modified Boot Floppy

On the system to be refreshed:
1 Insert the Standard Boot Floppy and let it boot to DOS
2 Run FDISK
3 Remove all logical drives and all partitions
4 Create your Primary partition and make it active
5 Format C:
6 Remove the Standard Boot Floppy
7 Insert the Windows 98 CD-ROM disc in the CD-ROM drive
8 Insert the Modified Boot Floppy and reboot (CTRL-ALT-DEL)

After the "Starting Windows 98" splash, this is what will happen
1 The system files will be copied to the C drive, making it bootable
2 The CD-ROM driver will be loaded
3 The C:\WIN98 directory will be created
4 The computer will switch to the CD-ROM drive D:
5 The computer will switch to the WIN98 directory on D:
6 The WIN98 directory files will be copied from the CD-ROM disc
to the C:\WIN98 sub-directory
7 The computer will switch to the hard drive C:
8 The computer will switch to the C:\WIN98 sub-directory
9 The Windows Setup program will begin

After Setup completes, you can run FDISK to create additional
primary and extended partitions and physical and logical drives
as required. Then it is time to install the drivers, system updates
and applications.

Anytime in the future, when you make a configuration change
which demands the Windows 98 CD, the system will
automagically use the CAB files in C:\WIN98 instead.
You won't have to insert the CD.

[jane]

WOW!
Thanks Hugh.
I have to say, that one has come in from out of left field.
I had no idea you could Fdisk and create partitions while an OS
is on the computer.
I have never done it that way before and am under the impression
that Fdisk kills everything.
How does it work? How can you create a partition while an OS is using the
said partition you wish to "break-down" into other sections? I thought you
had to utilise 3rd party software for this
procedure.
I have 1 1/2 hours before I have to leave, hope you are awake and
online.

regards Jane
"Hugh Candlin" > wrote in message
...
>
> "jane" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi All,
> > Its late and I'm going to college tomorrow.
> > I have two hours between lessons after lunch in which time I am
> > going back to friends to try again to instal win98se using garys
> > version of makeing a folder and intalling the cab-files into it.
> > Can anyone here please give me a 1 thru 10 Process on how to do
> > this properly.?
> > I only have 11 hours before I have to leave, I will hopefully check
> > early tomorrow to find a response or two
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > regards Jane
>
> On a working system:
> 1 Create a Windows 98 boot floppy
> 2 Remove the floppy and mark it Standard Boot Floppy
> 3 Create a second Windows 98 boot floppy
> 4 Now delete all files on the 2nd floppy EXCEPT:
> = AUTOEXEC.BAT
> = COMMAND.COM
> = CONFIG.SYS
> = FORMAT.COM
> = HIMEM.SYS
> = IO.SYS
> = MSCDEX.EXE
> = MSDOS.SYS
> = OAKCDROM.SYS
> = RESTART.COM
> = SCANDISK.EXE
> = SCANDISK.INI
> = SYS.COM
> (You can skip Step #4 if you like)
> 5 Right-click on AUTOEXEC.BAT and select Edit
> 6 Delete the content of AUTOEXEC.BAT
> 7 Copy and paste the following into AUTOEXEC.BAT
> SYS C:
> LH A:\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001
> MD C:\WIN98
> D:
> CD \WIN98
> COPY D:\WIN98\*.* C:\WIN98
> C:
> CD \WIN98
> SETUP
> [Note: I have double-spaced the commands to help
> with readability, but you can single-space]
> [Note: Make sure that you include the colons -
> they are very easy to miss if you type
> the commands instead of using copy/paste]
> 6 Close AUTOEXEC.BAT
> 7 Remove the floppy and mark it Modified Boot Floppy
>
> On the system to be refreshed:
> 1 Insert the Standard Boot Floppy and let it boot to DOS
> 2 Run FDISK
> 3 Remove all logical drives and all partitions
> 4 Create your Primary partition and make it active
> 5 Format C:
> 6 Remove the Standard Boot Floppy
> 7 Insert the Windows 98 CD-ROM disc in the CD-ROM drive
> 8 Insert the Modified Boot Floppy and reboot (CTRL-ALT-DEL)
>
> After the "Starting Windows 98" splash, this is what will happen
> 1 The system files will be copied to the C drive, making it bootable
> 2 The CD-ROM driver will be loaded
> 3 The C:\WIN98 directory will be created
> 4 The computer will switch to the CD-ROM drive D:
> 5 The computer will switch to the WIN98 directory on D:
> 6 The WIN98 directory files will be copied from the CD-ROM disc
> to the C:\WIN98 sub-directory
> 7 The computer will switch to the hard drive C:
> 8 The computer will switch to the C:\WIN98 sub-directory
> 9 The Windows Setup program will begin
>
> After Setup completes, you can run FDISK to create additional
> primary and extended partitions and physical and logical drives
> as required. Then it is time to install the drivers, system updates
> and applications.
>
> Anytime in the future, when you make a configuration change
> which demands the Windows 98 CD, the system will
> automagically use the CAB files in C:\WIN98 instead.
> You won't have to insert the CD.
>
>

[jane]

> 4 Now delete all files on the 2nd floppy EXCEPT:
> = AUTOEXEC.BAT
> = COMMAND.COM
> = CONFIG.SYS
> = FORMAT.COM
> = HIMEM.SYS
> = IO.SYS
> = MSCDEX.EXE
> = MSDOS.SYS
> = OAKCDROM.SYS
> = RESTART.COM
> = SCANDISK.EXE
> = SCANDISK.INI
> = SYS.COM
> (You can skip Step #4 if you like)
---------------------------
ER, Hugh,,,,,
I just made the New disk, and I checked it against your list, these
items are not even on it:::
SYS.COM
SCANDISK.EXE
SCANDISK.INI
RESTART.COM
MSCDEX.EXE
FORMAT.COM

Am I missing something?
The disk was made from going to Add/Rem, Create StartUp Disk.
I had a win98 CD in the drive.
Are the above missing files located within the EBD.CAB?
Getting confused!

regards Jane

[PCR]

http://www.hexff.com/index.html How to Clean Install
This first has it all, but..
(a) Perhaps don't do the 2.5 swap file thing, &
(b) You may rather have multiple partitions, &
(c) Attend it's warning: Have any non-Windows peripheral drivers
available to install afterwards. Here...
http://www.pchelpandconsulting.com/links/windows.html WinDrvExpert
http://www.jermar.com/wdrvbck.htm WinDrvBckup free version
Those two supposedly back up all currently installed drivers, such that
they can be reinstalled. I never tried it but have seen a favorable
report.

http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html Badour has one
http://aumha.org/win4/a/clean.htm Aumha has one
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=250928 How to Reinstall Windows
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=193902
How to Reinstall Windows into a new folder


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"jane" > wrote in message
...
| Hi All,
| Its late and I'm going to college tomorrow.
| I have two hours between lessons after lunch in which time I am
| going back to friends to try again to instal win98se using garys
| version of makeing a folder and intalling the cab-files into it.
| Can anyone here please give me a 1 thru 10 Process on how to do
| this properly.?
| I only have 11 hours before I have to leave, I will hopefully check
| early tomorrow to find a response or two
|
| thanks
|
| regards Jane
|
|

[Hugh Candlin]

"jane" > wrote in message
...
> WOW!
> Thanks Hugh.
> I have to say, that one has come in from out of left field.

I have posted that information a few times.

> I had no idea you could Fdisk and create partitions while an OS
> is on the computer.
> I have never done it that way before and am under the impression
> that Fdisk kills everything.
> How does it work?

How to Use the Fdisk Tool and the Format Tool to Partition or Repartition a
Hard Disk
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;255867

> How can you create a partition while an OS is using the
> said partition you wish to "break-down" into other sections? I thought
you
> had to utilise 3rd party software for this
> procedure.

That is true, but it is also a different set of specifications
from your original post, which is what I was responding to.

> I have 1 1/2 hours before I have to leave, hope you are awake and
> online.

Sorry.

I don't provide voluntary support on someone else's schedule.
Most of the people who provide support will probably agree
that the "rule" here is "catch-as-catch-can",
which comes right after "catch-me-if-you-can".

[Hugh Candlin]

"jane" > wrote in message
...
>
> > 4 Now delete all files on the 2nd floppy EXCEPT:
> > = AUTOEXEC.BAT
> > = COMMAND.COM
> > = CONFIG.SYS
> > = FORMAT.COM
> > = HIMEM.SYS
> > = IO.SYS
> > = MSCDEX.EXE
> > = MSDOS.SYS
> > = OAKCDROM.SYS
> > = RESTART.COM
> > = SCANDISK.EXE
> > = SCANDISK.INI
> > = SYS.COM
> > (You can skip Step #4 if you like)
> ---------------------------
> ER, Hugh,,,,,
> I just made the New disk, and I checked it against your list, these
> items are not even on it:::
> SYS.COM
> SCANDISK.EXE
> SCANDISK.INI
> RESTART.COM
> MSCDEX.EXE
> FORMAT.COM
>
> Am I missing something?
> The disk was made from going to Add/Rem, Create StartUp Disk.
> I had a win98 CD in the drive.
> Are the above missing files located within the EBD.CAB?

Yes.

> Getting confused!

That's why I said, (You can skip Step #4 if you like)

[jane]

"PCR" > wrote in message
...
> http://www.hexff.com/index.html How to Clean Install
> This first has it all, but..
> (a) Perhaps don't do the 2.5 swap file thing, &
> (b) You may rather have multiple partitions, &
> (c) Attend it's warning: Have any non-Windows peripheral drivers
> available to install afterwards. Here...
> http://www.pchelpandconsulting.com/links/windows.html WinDrvExpert
> http://www.jermar.com/wdrvbck.htm WinDrvBckup free version
> Those two supposedly back up all currently installed drivers, such that
> they can be reinstalled. I never tried it but have seen a favorable
> report.
>
> http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html Badour has one
> http://aumha.org/win4/a/clean.htm Aumha has one
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=250928 How to Reinstall Windows
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=193902
> How to Reinstall Windows into a new folder

Hey, thanks for reply PCR, i was worried about you.

Okay, since the last time I posted, Ian and I had lost our ISP.
I am online now as of about 1/2 an hour ago, (had to do a couple
of emails first)

I went to friends house at lunchtime (as mentioned) and we got straight into
it.
We used Garys version from about 2 weeks ago (I changed one thing)
It worked just fine.(hugh, yours was just toooo different for me to try
yesterday)
We then proceeded to put XP on the Drive(of which was created using Fdisk)
We made it NTFS, all is well.
(actually, I was in the drivers seat, so beat your chests guys, because I
followed all Your instructions and it worked)

Now,,,,,,,,,
Lets talk about JANE, she got stuff she needs help with.
Jane wants to have XP too, have disk now.
Have Ddrive with Autocad on it....... have already backed it up and placed
it in safe place on Edrive.
First Question. All of the Paths that Autocad is Used to, what will happen
to them when I do
a Restore and place Autocad itself on my Edrive? Will all prior settings be
gone.?
(this is naturally relating to the fact that I dont re-intal autocad from
disk and just plonk the
whole thing from Ddrive to Edrive via Back-Up)
Second, (btw, still summer here and prawns still available for bbq), the two
other things on my Ddrive
are Recycle Bin and Incinerator, of which are not backed up in any
way......... what is it exactly that
happens to these two chaps if I format D?
And, if I finallly get to the stage whereby I am ready to put XP on the
Ddrive (as I observed how easy it
was to do at my friends house..... albeit it he had no fear of losing
anything as he had a spare clean drive)
would I or would I not be smart/prudent in nominating the xp o/s as fat 32
or ntfs?
Keeping in mind I am only interested in looking around the way it works
rather that using it as my primary
o/s. (hope that makes sense, because I personally know exactly what I am
trying to say)

Oh, one last thing (as there always is with Jane).
That same friend Gave me one of those FlashDrive things......... (yes, I
know what it is).
He also gave me 3 small disks with it to load whatever was necessary to
load.
I managed to find the one that related to the product he gave me, but it was
insistant in
telling me it was USB 2.0 and that even if I had 98se I would have to d/l
drivers from the disk.
(pretty silly really, as I was reading it right in front of me from the disk
itself.........hmmm)
Anyway, this is yet another reason I want xp, having the flash would help
heaps in taking home
assignments from college.
Question is, can I use this FlashDrive with my win 98 usb1 or will I have to
instal xp in order to
have it?

boy, that was a lot of typing.

all that aside, and just to be sociable.
I downloaded a program/utility a few days ago, and the owner actually wrote
back to me praising me
for my enthusiasm and offered me 10 free licences of fully working versions
of his product..... and trust me,
it isnt just a fly-by-night product.
I was so impressed when I received the mail today that I wrote back
instantly telling him how I was nearly
in shock that he had even bothered to converse with me let alone offer me so
much.
It reminded me of you guys who are there as if I walked to a friends house
and knocked on the door because
I needed someone to talk to or some help with something.
I hear from so many people nowadays how the internet is like talking to a
bank, you just dont get to talk
to a person, and I'm so glad and thankful that I have found this kind of
newsgroup.

thanks guys

regards Jane

[PCR]

I'M OK! It's TERHUNE who was dangling by his toes in the mouths of his
Poodles over an earthquake! They DID hold him long enough for Dan to
complete his secret rescue mission, all the while saying he went to sit
on his nieces!

I must leave you in THEIR capable hands to answer any XP-radiation
questions. Glad you did get Win98 installed OK, though.


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"jane" > wrote in message
...
|
| "PCR" > wrote in message
| ...
| > http://www.hexff.com/index.html How to Clean Install
| > This first has it all, but..
| > (a) Perhaps don't do the 2.5 swap file thing, &
| > (b) You may rather have multiple partitions, &
| > (c) Attend it's warning: Have any non-Windows peripheral drivers
| > available to install afterwards. Here...
| > http://www.pchelpandconsulting.com/links/windows.html WinDrvExpert
| > http://www.jermar.com/wdrvbck.htm WinDrvBckup free version
| > Those two supposedly back up all currently installed drivers, such
that
| > they can be reinstalled. I never tried it but have seen a favorable
| > report.
| >
| > http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html Badour has one
| > http://aumha.org/win4/a/clean.htm Aumha has one
| > http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=250928 How to Reinstall Windows
| > http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=193902
| > How to Reinstall Windows into a new folder
|
| Hey, thanks for reply PCR, i was worried about you.
|
| Okay, since the last time I posted, Ian and I had lost our ISP.
| I am online now as of about 1/2 an hour ago, (had to do a couple
| of emails first)
|
| I went to friends house at lunchtime (as mentioned) and we got
straight into
| it.
| We used Garys version from about 2 weeks ago (I changed one thing)
| It worked just fine.(hugh, yours was just toooo different for me to
try
| yesterday)
| We then proceeded to put XP on the Drive(of which was created using
Fdisk)
| We made it NTFS, all is well.
| (actually, I was in the drivers seat, so beat your chests guys,
because I
| followed all Your instructions and it worked)
|
| Now,,,,,,,,,
| Lets talk about JANE, she got stuff she needs help with.
| Jane wants to have XP too, have disk now.
| Have Ddrive with Autocad on it....... have already backed it up and
placed
| it in safe place on Edrive.
| First Question. All of the Paths that Autocad is Used to, what will
happen
| to them when I do
| a Restore and place Autocad itself on my Edrive? Will all prior
settings be
| gone.?
| (this is naturally relating to the fact that I dont re-intal autocad
from
| disk and just plonk the
| whole thing from Ddrive to Edrive via Back-Up)
| Second, (btw, still summer here and prawns still available for bbq),
the two
| other things on my Ddrive
| are Recycle Bin and Incinerator, of which are not backed up in any
| way......... what is it exactly that
| happens to these two chaps if I format D?
| And, if I finallly get to the stage whereby I am ready to put XP on
the
| Ddrive (as I observed how easy it
| was to do at my friends house..... albeit it he had no fear of
losing
| anything as he had a spare clean drive)
| would I or would I not be smart/prudent in nominating the xp o/s as
fat 32
| or ntfs?
| Keeping in mind I am only interested in looking around the way it
works
| rather that using it as my primary
| o/s. (hope that makes sense, because I personally know exactly what I
am
| trying to say)
|
| Oh, one last thing (as there always is with Jane).
| That same friend Gave me one of those FlashDrive things.........
(yes, I
| know what it is).
| He also gave me 3 small disks with it to load whatever was necessary
to
| load.
| I managed to find the one that related to the product he gave me, but
it was
| insistant in
| telling me it was USB 2.0 and that even if I had 98se I would have to
d/l
| drivers from the disk.
| (pretty silly really, as I was reading it right in front of me from
the disk
| itself.........hmmm)
| Anyway, this is yet another reason I want xp, having the flash would
help
| heaps in taking home
| assignments from college.
| Question is, can I use this FlashDrive with my win 98 usb1 or will I
have to
| instal xp in order to
| have it?
|
| boy, that was a lot of typing.
|
| all that aside, and just to be sociable.
| I downloaded a program/utility a few days ago, and the owner actually
wrote
| back to me praising me
| for my enthusiasm and offered me 10 free licences of fully working
versions
| of his product..... and trust me,
| it isnt just a fly-by-night product.
| I was so impressed when I received the mail today that I wrote back
| instantly telling him how I was nearly
| in shock that he had even bothered to converse with me let alone offer
me so
| much.
| It reminded me of you guys who are there as if I walked to a friends
house
| and knocked on the door because
| I needed someone to talk to or some help with something.
| I hear from so many people nowadays how the internet is like talking
to a
| bank, you just dont get to talk
| to a person, and I'm so glad and thankful that I have found this kind
of
| newsgroup.
|
| thanks guys
|
| regards Jane
|
|

[Gary S. Terhune]

"jane" > wrote in message
...
> I went to friends house at lunchtime (as mentioned) and we got
straight into
> it.
> We used Garys version from about 2 weeks ago (I changed one thing)
> It worked just fine.(hugh, yours was just toooo different for me to
try
> yesterday)
> We then proceeded to put XP on the Drive(of which was created using
Fdisk)
> We made it NTFS, all is well.
> (actually, I was in the drivers seat, so beat your chests guys,
because I
> followed all Your instructions and it worked)

I have to ask: Why install Windows 98 if your final goal was Windows XP.
You can do all of the setup chores necessary from a WinXP CD, and if
upgrade verification was the issue, then the solution to that is to show
XP's Setup the installation CD for Win9x. Or am I reading you right? Was
this a dual-boot installation?

>
> Now,,,,,,,,,
> Lets talk about JANE, she got stuff she needs help with.
> Jane wants to have XP too, have disk now.
> Have Ddrive with Autocad on it....... have already backed it up and
placed
> it in safe place on Edrive.
> First Question. All of the Paths that Autocad is Used to, what will
happen
> to them when I do
> a Restore and place Autocad itself on my Edrive? Will all prior
settings be
> gone.?
> (this is naturally relating to the fact that I dont re-intal autocad
from
> disk and just plonk the
> whole thing from Ddrive to Edrive via Back-Up)

You can't migrate most programs from one OS installation to another in
this manner. Applications installations are often "dynamic" affairs--the
installer makes some of it's installation decisions based upon
pre-exisiting conditions. They also don't just consist of dumping the
files onto the drive. Besides files that it places in teh program's own
folder(s), there are also typically files added to the Common Files
section of Program Files, to various parts of the Windows directory, and
shortcuts, too. And, of course, there's the necessary changes to configu
ration files--not only to the Registry but also to files like Win.ini,
System.ini, etc. It's difficult enough when the OS migration is from one
instlalation to another of the same version (98 to 98, XP to XP, etc.)
The case is made worse by the fact that you are migrating from a Win9x
system to a WinNT system--the configuration files don't even necessarily
have the same names, the configurations themselves are performed in
entirely different manners, and many even not apply to one OS while
being critically necessary to another.

Or are you simply migrating the installation to another partition, with
a different letter, and are simply concerned about continued use from
the OS to which it was installed? If so, the same issues apply to a
degree. You would have to find *all* of the pointers to that program's
folders and files and then change them to the proper paths. But! You
have one saving grace. If you format the partition that used to be D:\
with the NTFS file system, Windows 98 can't recognize that partition,
and so will no longer call it D:\--it will call what *used_to_be* E:\
drive D:\ drive. This is good for your purposes of moving AutoCAD to the
current E:\ drive (because once you delete the current D:\ or reformat
using NTFS, it's not longer D:\ and E:\ becomes D:\.) But what about the
rest of your stuff? Anything that was already on E:\ will now be on D:\.
Were there any other programs on D:\? When you "backed up" the files to
the current E:\ drive, dod you copy them? Did you retain the same Path
other than the letter of the drive? Just what did you do?

> Second, (btw, still summer here and prawns still available for bbq),
the two
> other things on my Ddrive
> are Recycle Bin and Incinerator, of which are not backed up in any
> way......... what is it exactly that
> happens to these two chaps if I format D?

They disappear. Until you start up with a Windows OS in charge, at which
point the Recycler/Recycle Bin will be automatically recreated.
Incinerator is part of a third-party app and, I would imagine, if that
app was installed, and in this particular case, it will be automatically
recreated, also.

> And, if I finallly get to the stage whereby I am ready to put XP on
the
> Ddrive (as I observed how easy it
> was to do at my friends house..... albeit it he had no fear of
losing
> anything as he had a spare clean drive)
> would I or would I not be smart/prudent in nominating the xp o/s as
fat 32
> or ntfs?

Considering the previous discussion of moving AutoCAD, you would do best
by formatting it as NTFS.

> Keeping in mind I am only interested in looking around the way it
works
> rather that using it as my primary
> o/s. (hope that makes sense, because I personally know exactly what I
am
> trying to say)

I understand, but your should know that XP is very invasive. It adds
stuff to every partition it finds that it can recognize. Only by using a
3rd-party boot manager can you hide any partitions from XP, and even
then, it's tricky. So, expect files that are foreign to (and
unrecognized and sometimes mistreated by) Windows 98. You also want to
turn off XP's System Restore on all but its own OS partition. Lastly,
you will note that the drive letter assignments to partitions may vary
between the OSes. However, in XP, you can change almost any drive's
letter as you please.

>
> Oh, one last thing (as there always is with Jane).
> That same friend Gave me one of those FlashDrive things.........
(yes, I
> know what it is).
> He also gave me 3 small disks with it to load whatever was necessary
to
> load.
> I managed to find the one that related to the product he gave me, but
it was
> insistant in
> telling me it was USB 2.0 and that even if I had 98se I would have to
d/l
> drivers from the disk.
> (pretty silly really, as I was reading it right in front of me from
the disk
> itself.........hmmm)
> Anyway, this is yet another reason I want xp, having the flash would
help
> heaps in taking home
> assignments from college.
> Question is, can I use this FlashDrive with my win 98 usb1 or will I
have to
> instal xp in order to
> have it?

Well, does it work on the system you have? If so, that's a good enough
test. It *may* need additional drivers, even to function properly in USB
1.1 Mode on Win98. It may simply be stating that *if* you want it to
work according to specs, it needs to be in USB 2 mode, and for that, you
need drivers and/or USB 2 hardware support.
>
> boy, that was a lot of typing.
>
> all that aside, and just to be sociable.
> I downloaded a program/utility a few days ago, and the owner actually
wrote
> back to me praising me
> for my enthusiasm and offered me 10 free licences of fully working
versions
> of his product..... and trust me,
> it isnt just a fly-by-night product.
> I was so impressed when I received the mail today that I wrote back
> instantly telling him how I was nearly
> in shock that he had even bothered to converse with me let alone offer
me so
> much.
> It reminded me of you guys who are there as if I walked to a friends
house
> and knocked on the door because
> I needed someone to talk to or some help with something.
> I hear from so many people nowadays how the internet is like talking
to a
> bank, you just dont get to talk
> to a person, and I'm so glad and thankful that I have found this kind
of
> newsgroup.

All that workup and you aren't going to tell us what the program is?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

[jane]

Hi,,,,
Oh boy, never again.
I wrote last nights message after Ian and I came back from
dining out, and I re-read it just now. It sounds like jibberish
and I think I know why, something to do with two bottles of red
between us.

The utility is XXCOPY.
I chose it as my college assignment and the guy obviously read a
comment I left in the comment box. (didnt think anyone bothered reading
them).

regards Jane

oh, just installing Flash Device now, have to re-boot so will keep you
posted.

> All that workup and you aren't going to tell us what the program is?
>
> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS MVP Shell/User
> http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
> http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
>
>

[jane]

> I have to ask: Why install Windows 98 if your final goal was Windows XP.
> You can do all of the setup chores necessary from a WinXP CD, and if
> upgrade verification was the issue, then the solution to that is to show
> XP's Setup the installation CD for Win9x. Or am I reading you right? Was
> this a dual-boot installation?

Hi Gary,,,,
The answer is no, I honestly dont think anyone here was reading me right
concerning this project.
As you know, installing an O/S of any kind is/was new to me, especially over
the last month.
So, installing win98 on his system was a step toward one of two goals.
The first being the fact that we have both been led to believe that when
having two
O/S's on a drive it is prudent to put the lesser one on first and put XP on
last.
The second being the sheer opportunity to do another instal of win98.
The primary objective for me personally on top of the above is the lead up
to
actually putting XP on my own home computer.
All of the characteristics you mention that xp has, especially its ability
to basically
install itself with very little user interaction, is new to me.
As I have mentioned many many times, I do Not have xp and have only come
into
contact with it via visiting college a few times a week for a couple of
hours each time.
This as you can imagine gives me very little time to aquaint myself with it,
and especially
as most of the time the instructor talking and teaching.
My goal then of having here on my home PC is nothing more than familiarity.
I will not be using it to connect to the internet, I will not be keeping any
programs on it,,
I merely want it to get the feel of it.

Hope that has cleared up for all the reason for my having it.
Also hope it cleared things up regarding my wanting see first hand what
happens when
98 and xp are both on one hdd........ I havent seen this before.

regards Jane

[Gary S. Terhune]

Yes, I read it wrong. Your goal was a dual-boot system. All I can
suggest is that it's better to set those up on separate partitions, and
yes, you're right, you want to install Win98 before WinXP *if* you
intend to use WinXP's boot manager, and not some third-party boot
manager. Otherwise, I'd recommend the opposite: Install XP first,
precisely so that it doesn't install its boot manager.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"jane" > wrote in message
...
>
> > I have to ask: Why install Windows 98 if your final goal was Windows
XP.
> > You can do all of the setup chores necessary from a WinXP CD, and if
> > upgrade verification was the issue, then the solution to that is to
show
> > XP's Setup the installation CD for Win9x. Or am I reading you right?
Was
> > this a dual-boot installation?
>
> Hi Gary,,,,
> The answer is no, I honestly dont think anyone here was reading me
right
> concerning this project.
> As you know, installing an O/S of any kind is/was new to me,
especially over
> the last month.
> So, installing win98 on his system was a step toward one of two goals.
> The first being the fact that we have both been led to believe that
when
> having two
> O/S's on a drive it is prudent to put the lesser one on first and put
XP on
> last.
> The second being the sheer opportunity to do another instal of win98.
> The primary objective for me personally on top of the above is the
lead up
> to
> actually putting XP on my own home computer.
> All of the characteristics you mention that xp has, especially its
ability
> to basically
> install itself with very little user interaction, is new to me.
> As I have mentioned many many times, I do Not have xp and have only
come
> into
> contact with it via visiting college a few times a week for a couple
of
> hours each time.
> This as you can imagine gives me very little time to aquaint myself
with it,
> and especially
> as most of the time the instructor talking and teaching.
> My goal then of having here on my home PC is nothing more than
familiarity.
> I will not be using it to connect to the internet, I will not be
keeping any
> programs on it,,
> I merely want it to get the feel of it.
>
> Hope that has cleared up for all the reason for my having it.
> Also hope it cleared things up regarding my wanting see first hand
what
> happens when
> 98 and xp are both on one hdd........ I havent seen this before.
>
> regards Jane
>
>