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Larry
June 9th 04, 08:02 AM
Windows 98, Dell, 333 MH, 64 MB Ram.

Lately every few days, the available resources shrink. For example,
right now, with the heavy applications all off (Word, OE, IE), my
available resources are only 23 percent free. Normally it would be much
more than that, around 64 percent. I need to restart the computer to
get the free resources up to a normal level. Then after a few days it
will start to shrink again.

Larry

PCR
June 9th 04, 08:25 AM
Are you saying you leave the computer on for days on end? Naturally your
resources will vanish, if you do that. Shut it down, if you will be away
for two hours, even!


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR

"Larry" > wrote in message
...
| Windows 98, Dell, 333 MH, 64 MB Ram.
|
| Lately every few days, the available resources shrink. For example,
| right now, with the heavy applications all off (Word, OE, IE), my
| available resources are only 23 percent free. Normally it would be
much
| more than that, around 64 percent. I need to restart the computer to
| get the free resources up to a normal level. Then after a few days it
| will start to shrink again.
|
| Larry
|
|
|
|

Gary S. Terhune
June 9th 04, 08:33 AM
If you're in the habit of leaving the machine on without restarting for days
on end, this is fairly common in some systems. Always has been. But if, as
you say, it has only become apparent recently, it may be easier to pinpoint
the cause. It may simply be some update to Windows, but some change in other
programming, or one or another update to your background apps is at least as
much if not more likely.

Unfortunately, with a problem that takes days to develop, your t-shooting is
correspondingly slow going. Normal procedure is to disable all background
programming and see if that remedies the problem and, assuming it does, then
proceed to add items back in, one at a time, until you find the one that
does it.

Still, if you want some "experienced guessers" to weigh in on the most
likely suspects, use MSINFO32 (run from the Start\Run box.) Expand the
Software Environment section, click on Startup Programs, click anywhere in
the right-hand pane, then use Ctrl-A to Select All, Ctrl-C to Copy, and then
Paste it into a Reply to this thread (can use Ctrl-V.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Win9x

"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> Windows 98, Dell, 333 MH, 64 MB Ram.
>
> Lately every few days, the available resources shrink. For example,
> right now, with the heavy applications all off (Word, OE, IE), my
> available resources are only 23 percent free. Normally it would be much
> more than that, around 64 percent. I need to restart the computer to
> get the free resources up to a normal level. Then after a few days it
> will start to shrink again.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>

ArtWilder
June 9th 04, 09:30 AM
Only 64 megabytes on this machine --- that is really small these days --- is
it a laptop? Would it be easy to upgrade to128 mb's -- since it is only 333
Mhz. I wouldn't buy any more ram then this since it seems like it is time
for another machine if you can afford a cheap one. I say this because I see
computers as tools and although extremely useful they are hardly as
important as food and shelter. :>

"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> Windows 98, Dell, 333 MH, 64 MB Ram.
>
> Lately every few days, the available resources shrink. For example,
> right now, with the heavy applications all off (Word, OE, IE), my
> available resources are only 23 percent free. Normally it would be much
> more than that, around 64 percent. I need to restart the computer to
> get the free resources up to a normal level. Then after a few days it
> will start to shrink again.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>

Curt Christianson
June 9th 04, 10:45 AM
Hi ArtWilder,
You're not confusing resources with RAM are you?
If so, see here: http://aumha.org/win4/a/resource.htm

--
Curt--not the MVP by the same name

W98 Support & Discussion:
http://dundats.proboards27.com/index.cgi
Windows How-tos and and Freeware:
http://mvps.org/PracticallyNerded/
Windows Help & Discussion:
http://forum.aumha.org/

"ArtWilder" > wrote in message
news:8Uzxc.28021$My6.24381@fed1read05...
> Only 64 megabytes on this machine --- that is really small these days ---
is
> it a laptop? Would it be easy to upgrade to128 mb's -- since it is only
333
> Mhz. I wouldn't buy any more ram then this since it seems like it is time
> for another machine if you can afford a cheap one. I say this because I
see
> computers as tools and although extremely useful they are hardly as
> important as food and shelter. :>
>
> "Larry" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Windows 98, Dell, 333 MH, 64 MB Ram.
> >
> > Lately every few days, the available resources shrink. For example,
> > right now, with the heavy applications all off (Word, OE, IE), my
> > available resources are only 23 percent free. Normally it would be much
> > more than that, around 64 percent. I need to restart the computer to
> > get the free resources up to a normal level. Then after a few days it
> > will start to shrink again.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.701 / Virus Database: 458 - Release Date: 6/7/04

Larry
June 9th 04, 08:05 PM
Thanks, all.

First, I don't leave the computer on for days at a time, but for two
days at most. When I say the problem is cumulative, I mean that over
several days (during which time the computer has been occasionally
turned off) the available resources (shown in System Properties,
Performance tab) gets real low. Normally, if only Windows is on, and no
major programs are on, the available resources are about 64%. Right
now, with Word and OE open, it's at 45%. But last night it was down to
around 13%.

Here's the information you requested


library Startup Group C:\Documents\library.rtl
WinKey Startup Group "C:\Program Files\WinKey\WinKey.exe"
The Icon Corral Startup Group "C:\Program
Files\IconCorral\IconCorral.exe"
Winword Startup Group "C:\Program Files\Microsoft
Office\Office\WINWORD.EXE"
Flywheel Startup Group "C:\Program Files\Plannet
Crafters\Flywheel\Flywheel.exe"
ScanRegistry Registry (Machine Run) c:\windows\scanregw.exe /autorun
SystemTray Registry (Machine Run) SysTray.Exe
LoadPowerProfile Registry (Machine Run) Rundll32.exe
powrprof.dll,LoadCurrentPwrScheme
AT&T DSL Service PCA Program Registry (Machine Run) C:\Program
Files\AT&T\DSL\programs\dslpca.exe /ws
Tweak UI Registry (Machine Run) RUNDLL32.EXE TWEAKUI.CPL,TweakMeUp
Zone Labs Client Registry (Machine Run)
C:\PROGRA~1\ZONELA~1\ZONEAL~1\zlclient.exe
TkBellExe Registry (Machine Run) "C:\Program Files\Common
Files\Real\Update_OB\realsched.exe" -osboot
LoadPowerProfile Registry (Machine Service) Rundll32.exe
powrprof.dll,LoadCurrentPwrScheme
TrueVector Registry (Machine Service)
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\ZONELABS\VSMON.EXE -service


"Gary S. Terhune" > wrote in message
...
> If you're in the habit of leaving the machine on without restarting
for days
> on end, this is fairly common in some systems. Always has been. But
if, as
> you say, it has only become apparent recently, it may be easier to
pinpoint
> the cause. It may simply be some update to Windows, but some change in
other
> programming, or one or another update to your background apps is at
least as
> much if not more likely.
>
> Unfortunately, with a problem that takes days to develop, your
t-shooting is
> correspondingly slow going. Normal procedure is to disable all
background
> programming and see if that remedies the problem and, assuming it
does, then
> proceed to add items back in, one at a time, until you find the one
that
> does it.
>
> Still, if you want some "experienced guessers" to weigh in on the most
> likely suspects, use MSINFO32 (run from the Start\Run box.) Expand the
> Software Environment section, click on Startup Programs, click
anywhere in
> the right-hand pane, then use Ctrl-A to Select All, Ctrl-C to Copy,
and then
> Paste it into a Reply to this thread (can use Ctrl-V.)
>
> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS MVP for Win9x
>
> "Larry" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Windows 98, Dell, 333 MH, 64 MB Ram.
> >
> > Lately every few days, the available resources shrink. For example,
> > right now, with the heavy applications all off (Word, OE, IE), my
> > available resources are only 23 percent free. Normally it would be
much
> > more than that, around 64 percent. I need to restart the computer
to
> > get the free resources up to a normal level. Then after a few days
it
> > will start to shrink again.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Gary S. Terhune
June 9th 04, 10:43 PM
"Larry" > wrote in message
...
>
> Thanks, all.
>
> First, I don't leave the computer on for days at a time, but for two
> days at most. When I say the problem is cumulative, I mean that over
> several days (during which time the computer has been occasionally
> turned off) the available resources (shown in System Properties,
> Performance tab) gets real low. Normally, if only Windows is on, and no
> major programs are on, the available resources are about 64%. Right
> now, with Word and OE open, it's at 45%. But last night it was down to
> around 13%.

OK, first of all, when Windows restarts it should all go back to square
one--any accumulating drain on Resources should be wiped out. That you
notice a progressive problem over the course of several days, presumably
followed by a (sudden?) return to what you're used to--that's very odd.

You have a somewhat heavy background load if you only have 64% Resources
after starting. I'll go through and comment on each of the items you list
below. A few of them are definitely not problems, some are things I would
recommend anyone get rid of (from the startup axis, anyway) and others are
ones you should consider carefully, and or suspect of causing the drain.
FYI, the best discussion I know of on Resources is by Jim Eshelman, MS MVP,
at http://aumha.org/win4/a/resource.htm

Lastly, it may simply be that one of your normal apps, Word for instance, or
IE/OE, has developed a problem and needs to be repaired.

The following are started by shortcuts in your Start\Programs\Startup menu
(That's that the notation "Startup Group" means.)
> library Startup Group C:\Documents\library.rtl
No idea what this is. Do you know?

> WinKey Startup Group "C:\Program Files\WinKey\WinKey.exe"
Not something I use, and if you don't, I'd dump it.

> The Icon Corral Startup Group "C:\Program Files\IconCorral\IconCorral.exe"
I'm supposing some desktop icon manager. Do you *really* need this? GDI
(graphical) Resources are the most prone to creating problems, and I can't
help but think that an icon manager won't have serious impact on GDI
Resources if not performing perfectly.

> Winword Startup Group "C:\Program Files\Microsoft
Office\Office\WINWORD.EXE"
You have Word set to open with startup? What version, by the way?

> Flywheel Startup Group "C:\Program Files\Plannet
Crafters\Flywheel\Flywheel.exe"
No idea what this is.

The following are started by commands in the Registry, specifically the
following key:
HKEY_Local_Machine\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\Run

> ScanRegistry Registry (Machine Run) c:\windows\scanregw.exe /autorun
Performs integrity scan of Registry and daily backup. LEAVE IT!

> SystemTray Registry (Machine Run) SysTray.Exe
Provides a home for your Volume Control if nothing else. Harmless, leave it.

> LoadPowerProfile Registry (Machine Run) Rundll32.exe
powrprof.dll,LoadCurrentPwrScheme
This and the one below load your Power Savings Scheme. Even if you don't
"have" one, leave this. Leave *both* of them.

> AT&T DSL Service PCA Program Registry (Machine Run) C:\Program
Files\AT&T\DSL\programs\dslpca.exe /ws
I'm assuming you need this one to get online? If not, you should consider it
a strong suspect, at least. I don't recognize it as necessary hardware
support or just guck installed by AT&T that you really don't need. Again,
this one sets off alarms.

> Tweak UI Registry (Machine Run) RUNDLL32.EXE TWEAKUI.CPL,TweakMeUp
I'm not a fan of TUI, but I seriously doubt it has any impact on Resources.
Maybe someone else knows.

> Zone Labs Client Registry (Machine Run)
C:\PROGRA~1\ZONELA~1\ZONEAL~1\zlclient.exe
Gotta have it, and should be no problem, but I'd include it in the list of
possible suspects.

> TkBellExe Registry (Machine Run) "C:\Program Files\Common
Files\Real\Update_OB\realsched.exe" -osboot
Get rid of this one, period! Pure garbage.

> LoadPowerProfile Registry (Machine Service) Rundll32.exe
powrprof.dll,LoadCurrentPwrScheme
Discussed above.

> TrueVector Registry (Machine Service)
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\ZONELABS\VSMON.EXE -service
Discussed above.

To test (best done overnight), run MSCONFIG from the Start\Run box and
choose Selective Startup, then disable all items except WIN.INI and
SYSTEM.INI. Then *physically* disconnect your machine from the internet.
Restart and see what your resources look like. Then leave the machine alone
overnight or all day--the longer the better--and see what happens. If
there's no obvious drain, re-enable just ZoneAlarm (BUT--you have no
antivirus?) and whatever is the minimum necessary to reconnect to the
internet. Go through the day normally, keeping *accurate* track of what
you're doing. Might also want to start Resource Meter and have it keep a
log. Then add back in the normal stuff I said you should leave, then
one-by-one add the questionable items.

I notice that at least one standard item is missing--TASKMON--which logs
usage in order to assist in optimization during DEFRAG. Is this on purpose?
If so, no biggy. And, as noted, there is an obvious lack of any background
Antivirus? What's up with that? Do you *currently* have anything disabled in
MSCONFIG? Anything that's disabled there will not show up in the MSINFO32
list.

That's enough for now, I hope. See how it goes.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Win9x



> "Gary S. Terhune" > wrote in message
> ...
> > If you're in the habit of leaving the machine on without restarting
> for days
> > on end, this is fairly common in some systems. Always has been. But
> if, as
> > you say, it has only become apparent recently, it may be easier to
> pinpoint
> > the cause. It may simply be some update to Windows, but some change in
> other
> > programming, or one or another update to your background apps is at
> least as
> > much if not more likely.
> >
> > Unfortunately, with a problem that takes days to develop, your
> t-shooting is
> > correspondingly slow going. Normal procedure is to disable all
> background
> > programming and see if that remedies the problem and, assuming it
> does, then
> > proceed to add items back in, one at a time, until you find the one
> that
> > does it.
> >
> > Still, if you want some "experienced guessers" to weigh in on the most
> > likely suspects, use MSINFO32 (run from the Start\Run box.) Expand the
> > Software Environment section, click on Startup Programs, click
> anywhere in
> > the right-hand pane, then use Ctrl-A to Select All, Ctrl-C to Copy,
> and then
> > Paste it into a Reply to this thread (can use Ctrl-V.)
> >
> > --
> > Gary S. Terhune
> > MS MVP for Win9x
> >
> > "Larry" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Windows 98, Dell, 333 MH, 64 MB Ram.
> > >
> > > Lately every few days, the available resources shrink. For example,
> > > right now, with the heavy applications all off (Word, OE, IE), my
> > > available resources are only 23 percent free. Normally it would be
> much
> > > more than that, around 64 percent. I need to restart the computer
> to
> > > get the free resources up to a normal level. Then after a few days
> it
> > > will start to shrink again.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

Larry
June 10th 04, 02:41 AM
> You have a somewhat heavy background load if you only have 64%
Resources
> after starting. I'll go through and comment on each of the items you
list
> below. A few of them are definitely not problems, some are things I
would
> recommend anyone get rid of (from the startup axis, anyway) and others
are
> ones you should consider carefully, and or suspect of causing the
drain.
> FYI, the best discussion I know of on Resources is by Jim Eshelman, MS
MVP,
> at http://aumha.org/win4/a/resource.htm
>
> Lastly, it may simply be that one of your normal apps, Word for
instance, or
> IE/OE, has developed a problem and needs to be repaired.

Gary, you're going to find me a difficult "patient," since my programs
all serve a useful purpose and they haven't given me trouble before.

> The following are started by shortcuts in your Start\Programs\Startup
menu
> (That's that the notation "Startup Group" means.)
> > library Startup Group C:\Documents\library.rtl
> No idea what this is. Do you know?

That's robotype, a little autocorrect-type program that loads in the
systray.

> > WinKey Startup Group "C:\Program Files\WinKey\WinKey.exe"
> Not something I use, and if you don't, I'd dump it.

Winkey is indispensable. I don't know how anyone could use a computer
without it. (allows user to assign keystrokes involving the Windows key
to load any program, folder, or website.)

> > The Icon Corral Startup Group "C:\Program
Files\IconCorral\IconCorral.exe"
> I'm supposing some desktop icon manager. Do you *really* need this?
GDI
> (graphical) Resources are the most prone to creating problems, and I
can't
> help but think that an icon manager won't have serious impact on GDI
> Resources if not performing perfectly.

That enables me to place certain programs in the systray where they're
out of the way. It's very convenient. For example, I just keep OE on
the whole time since it takes so long to load, but to avoid having it in
the taskbar, I put it in the systray.
>
> > Winword Startup Group "C:\Program Files\Microsoft
> Office\Office\WINWORD.EXE"
> You have Word set to open with startup? What version, by the way?

Word 97. By starting Word in minimized state, I don't deal with that
dumb splash screen.
>
> > Flywheel Startup Group "C:\Program Files\Plannet
> Crafters\Flywheel\Flywheel.exe"
> No idea what this is.

This gives mouse scrolling capability in all programs, which doesn't
come naturally with Win 98. For example, it allows me to scroll in the
VBA window.
>
> The following are started by commands in the Registry, specifically
the
> following key:
> HKEY_Local_Machine\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\Run
>
> > AT&T DSL Service PCA Program Registry (Machine Run) C:\Program
> Files\AT&T\DSL\programs\dslpca.exe /ws
> I'm assuming you need this one to get online? If not, you should
consider it
> a strong suspect, at least. I don't recognize it as necessary hardware
> support or just guck installed by AT&T that you really don't need.
Again,
> this one sets off alarms.

Hmm, I'd assume it's necessary in getting onilne, but I don't know.
>
> > Zone Labs Client Registry (Machine Run)
> C:\PROGRA~1\ZONELA~1\ZONEAL~1\zlclient.exe
> Gotta have it, and should be no problem, but I'd include it in the
list of
> possible suspects.
>
> > TkBellExe Registry (Machine Run) "C:\Program Files\Common
> Files\Real\Update_OB\realsched.exe" -osboot
> Get rid of this one, period! Pure garbage.

I've unchecked this in Startup tab of msconfig.

I'll study your test instructions and try this out. Thank you very
much. Larry
>


> To test (best done overnight), run MSCONFIG from the Start\Run box and
> choose Selective Startup, then disable all items except WIN.INI and
> SYSTEM.INI. Then *physically* disconnect your machine from the
internet.
> Restart and see what your resources look like. Then leave the machine
alone
> overnight or all day--the longer the better--and see what happens. If
> there's no obvious drain, re-enable just ZoneAlarm (BUT--you have no
> antivirus?) and whatever is the minimum necessary to reconnect to the
> internet. Go through the day normally, keeping *accurate* track of
what
> you're doing. Might also want to start Resource Meter and have it keep
a
> log. Then add back in the normal stuff I said you should leave, then
> one-by-one add the questionable items.
>
> I notice that at least one standard item is missing--TASKMON--which
logs
> usage in order to assist in optimization during DEFRAG. Is this on
purpose?
> If so, no biggy. And, as noted, there is an obvious lack of any
background
> Antivirus? What's up with that? Do you *currently* have anything
disabled in
> MSCONFIG? Anything that's disabled there will not show up in the
MSINFO32
> list.
>
> That's enough for now, I hope. See how it goes.
>
> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS MVP for Win9x
>

Larry
June 10th 04, 02:03 PM
By the way, what _are_ system resources, as distinct from memory?

(Also, though I haven't begun Gary's experiment yet, I did leave the
computer on overnight, and the free system resources went down a bit
during the night.)

Larry

Larry
June 10th 04, 02:14 PM
This article explains it all. Very interesting.

http://www.apptools.com/rants/resources.php

Larry

Larry
June 10th 04, 02:42 PM
There was one thing about this article that puzzled me. The author says
that the only way to recover the resources lost through resource leakage
(meaning resources being used by an application which are not released
when the application is closed), is to reboot the computer. Why would
rebooting the computer be necessary? Isn't it enough to restart
Windows, rather than restarting the computer?

By rebooting I mean, clicking Restart on the Shut Down Windows dialog
box, which turns everything off but the power source and then
automatically starts turning on the computer again just like turning on
the computer from scratch.

By restarting Windows, I mean clicking Restart on the Shut Down Windows
dialog box while holding down the Shift key. This only restarts
Windows, and does not turn off and then turn on the hardware components
of the computer.

Also, these are such different functions, that I think they ought to be
different items on the Shut Down dialog, with one item saying: "Restart
computer," and the other item saying "Restart Windows." That would
clear up a lot of confusion for users.

Larry




"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> This article explains it all. Very interesting.
>
> http://www.apptools.com/rants/resources.php
>
> Larry
>
>

Gary S. Terhune
June 10th 04, 05:52 PM
I will respond to your previous as I get time this morning. However, in
answer to this specific question, I already gave you a link to good article
by Jim Eshelman, MS MVP:
http://aumha.org/win4/a/resource.htm

Jim also has very good explanations on Memory.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Win9x

"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> By the way, what _are_ system resources, as distinct from memory?
>
> (Also, though I haven't begun Gary's experiment yet, I did leave the
> computer on overnight, and the free system resources went down a bit
> during the night.)
>
> Larry
>
>

Gary S. Terhune
June 10th 04, 05:54 PM
I think Jim's article is a bit less "judgmental" and useful.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Win9x

"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> This article explains it all. Very interesting.
>
> http://www.apptools.com/rants/resources.php
>
> Larry
>
>

Gary S. Terhune
June 10th 04, 06:12 PM
Using <Shift>-Restart in Windows 98 and above is not supported. Fully
restarting and re-enumerating hardware is a *good* idea. Not doing so can
cause problems. The startup sequence is not comparable to Win95. As of
Win98, "Restart Windows" and "Restart Computer" are synonymous.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Win9x

"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> There was one thing about this article that puzzled me. The author says
> that the only way to recover the resources lost through resource leakage
> (meaning resources being used by an application which are not released
> when the application is closed), is to reboot the computer. Why would
> rebooting the computer be necessary? Isn't it enough to restart
> Windows, rather than restarting the computer?
>
> By rebooting I mean, clicking Restart on the Shut Down Windows dialog
> box, which turns everything off but the power source and then
> automatically starts turning on the computer again just like turning on
> the computer from scratch.
>
> By restarting Windows, I mean clicking Restart on the Shut Down Windows
> dialog box while holding down the Shift key. This only restarts
> Windows, and does not turn off and then turn on the hardware components
> of the computer.
>
> Also, these are such different functions, that I think they ought to be
> different items on the Shut Down dialog, with one item saying: "Restart
> computer," and the other item saying "Restart Windows." That would
> clear up a lot of confusion for users.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> "Larry" > wrote in message
> ...
> > This article explains it all. Very interesting.
> >
> > http://www.apptools.com/rants/resources.php
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
>
>

Larry
June 10th 04, 06:38 PM
But Gary, if I do Restart, it goes back to the very start, just as if I
was turning on the computer, whereas if I do Shift/Restart, it just
restarts Windows. So, even if, as you say, doing Shift/Restart is not
recommended because it may cause problems, it seems to me that Restart
Windows and Restart Computer mean two different things.

Larry



"Gary S. Terhune" > wrote in message
...
> Using <Shift>-Restart in Windows 98 and above is not supported. Fully
> restarting and re-enumerating hardware is a *good* idea. Not doing so
can
> cause problems. The startup sequence is not comparable to Win95. As of
> Win98, "Restart Windows" and "Restart Computer" are synonymous.
>
> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS MVP for Win9x
>
> "Larry" > wrote in message
> ...
> > There was one thing about this article that puzzled me. The author
says
> > that the only way to recover the resources lost through resource
leakage
> > (meaning resources being used by an application which are not
released
> > when the application is closed), is to reboot the computer. Why
would
> > rebooting the computer be necessary? Isn't it enough to restart
> > Windows, rather than restarting the computer?
> >
> > By rebooting I mean, clicking Restart on the Shut Down Windows
dialog
> > box, which turns everything off but the power source and then
> > automatically starts turning on the computer again just like turning
on
> > the computer from scratch.
> >
> > By restarting Windows, I mean clicking Restart on the Shut Down
Windows
> > dialog box while holding down the Shift key. This only restarts
> > Windows, and does not turn off and then turn on the hardware
components
> > of the computer.
> >
> > Also, these are such different functions, that I think they ought to
be
> > different items on the Shut Down dialog, with one item saying:
"Restart
> > computer," and the other item saying "Restart Windows." That would
> > clear up a lot of confusion for users.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Larry" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > This article explains it all. Very interesting.
> > >
> > > http://www.apptools.com/rants/resources.php
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

Larry
June 10th 04, 06:41 PM
Sorry for not reading the other article. I'll read it soon. Thanks.

Larry


"Gary S. Terhune" > wrote in message
...
> I will respond to your previous as I get time this morning. However,
in
> answer to this specific question, I already gave you a link to good
article
> by Jim Eshelman, MS MVP:
> http://aumha.org/win4/a/resource.htm
>
> Jim also has very good explanations on Memory.
>
> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS MVP for Win9x

Gary S. Terhune
June 10th 04, 09:05 PM
They may mean two different things to you, and perhaps in some theoretical
sense, but in the *real* world, with Windows 98 and above, restarting
Windows without restarting the machine is not an acceptable procedure. Thus,
to restart Windows 98 according to procedure, you restart the computer. You
are not restarting Windows 98 if you don't restart the computer. You're
doing something else which is not a complete restart of Windows. Thus,
semantically, there is no difference between the two instructions you are
complaining about.

(Except that I suppose you could argue that if you restart the system and
then insert a floppy or CD disk that has a different OS, or use a boot
manager to switch to something else, etc., you aren't restarting
Windows--but in that case, you're aborting the original process and doing
something else. And, no, restarting in MS-DOS or Command Prompt Only mode,
or even using a Windows Startup Disk, is not restarting in some other
OS--MS-DOS or Command Prompt Only mode in Windows 98 is a subset of the
whole. MS-DOS 7.x does not exist as a stand-alone OS.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Win9x

"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> But Gary, if I do Restart, it goes back to the very start, just as if I
> was turning on the computer, whereas if I do Shift/Restart, it just
> restarts Windows. So, even if, as you say, doing Shift/Restart is not
> recommended because it may cause problems, it seems to me that Restart
> Windows and Restart Computer mean two different things.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
> "Gary S. Terhune" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Using <Shift>-Restart in Windows 98 and above is not supported. Fully
> > restarting and re-enumerating hardware is a *good* idea. Not doing so
> can
> > cause problems. The startup sequence is not comparable to Win95. As of
> > Win98, "Restart Windows" and "Restart Computer" are synonymous.
> >
> > --
> > Gary S. Terhune
> > MS MVP for Win9x
> >
> > "Larry" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > There was one thing about this article that puzzled me. The author
> says
> > > that the only way to recover the resources lost through resource
> leakage
> > > (meaning resources being used by an application which are not
> released
> > > when the application is closed), is to reboot the computer. Why
> would
> > > rebooting the computer be necessary? Isn't it enough to restart
> > > Windows, rather than restarting the computer?
> > >
> > > By rebooting I mean, clicking Restart on the Shut Down Windows
> dialog
> > > box, which turns everything off but the power source and then
> > > automatically starts turning on the computer again just like turning
> on
> > > the computer from scratch.
> > >
> > > By restarting Windows, I mean clicking Restart on the Shut Down
> Windows
> > > dialog box while holding down the Shift key. This only restarts
> > > Windows, and does not turn off and then turn on the hardware
> components
> > > of the computer.
> > >
> > > Also, these are such different functions, that I think they ought to
> be
> > > different items on the Shut Down dialog, with one item saying:
> "Restart
> > > computer," and the other item saying "Restart Windows." That would
> > > clear up a lot of confusion for users.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Larry" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > This article explains it all. Very interesting.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.apptools.com/rants/resources.php
> > > >
> > > > Larry
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

Gary S. Terhune
June 11th 04, 07:44 PM
"Larry" > wrote in message
...
>
> Gary, you're going to find me a difficult "patient," since my programs
> all serve a useful purpose and they haven't given me trouble before.

Not to worry. You have a quite trim and sensible configuration, all told.
Much more so than most people here. I just wanted to cover all the bases. My
apologies for the delays in answering, but my mind was too tired to give
this the attention it deserved by the time I got to it yesterday. I hope
this delay proved fruitful.

>
> > The following are started by shortcuts in your Start\Programs\Startup
> menu
> > (That's that the notation "Startup Group" means.)
> > > library Startup Group C:\Documents\library.rtl
> > No idea what this is. Do you know?
>
> That's robotype, a little autocorrect-type program that loads in the
> systray.

Auto-correcting typing would probably involve some fairly deep hooks and
continuous background activity and or monitoring. While it may not have
caused you problems in the past, anything less than perfect functioning by
this program could cause the problems you're seeing. Note that it's probably
not the program itself (if it is this at all), or it's configuration, but
more likely a change in the programs and modules it hooks into.

>
> > > WinKey Startup Group "C:\Program Files\WinKey\WinKey.exe"
> > Not something I use, and if you don't, I'd dump it.
>
> Winkey is indispensable. I don't know how anyone could use a computer
> without it. (allows user to assign keystrokes involving the Windows key
> to load any program, folder, or website.)

Same issues as above, more or less. In both cases I would, of course, test
first to see if there was discernable impact on system behavior with each
one isolated as a variable, but I would also probably just reinstall
them--and the keyboard drivers (keyboard first.) Boot into Safe Mode, Remove
the keyboard in Device Manager, restart, then reinstall the programs.

>
> > > The Icon Corral Startup Group "C:\Program
> Files\IconCorral\IconCorral.exe"
> > I'm supposing some desktop icon manager. Do you *really* need this?
> GDI
> > (graphical) Resources are the most prone to creating problems, and I
> can't
> > help but think that an icon manager won't have serious impact on GDI
> > Resources if not performing perfectly.
>
> That enables me to place certain programs in the systray where they're
> out of the way. It's very convenient. For example, I just keep OE on
> the whole time since it takes so long to load, but to avoid having it in
> the taskbar, I put it in the systray.

It is as I say, however, probably a hit on Resources to do this, and once
again, something that could easily be affected by updates to IE (which are
usually updates affecting the entire Shell.) Again, this only makes the
program a strong suspect. There's no way to know without properly testing
the possibility.

> >
> > > Winword Startup Group "C:\Program Files\Microsoft
> > Office\Office\WINWORD.EXE"
> > You have Word set to open with startup? What version, by the way?
>
> Word 97. By starting Word in minimized state, I don't deal with that
> dumb splash screen.

Don't know enough about Word or Office in any guise, other than that they
are complicated, Resource intensive programs, and that any one of thousands
of variables could cause problems. If testing determines it to be a cause of
progressive draining, I'd visit the appropriate Office group to request
assistance.

> >
> > > Flywheel Startup Group "C:\Program Files\Plannet
> > Crafters\Flywheel\Flywheel.exe"
> > No idea what this is.
>
> This gives mouse scrolling capability in all programs, which doesn't
> come naturally with Win 98. For example, it allows me to scroll in the
> VBA window.

Response to this is the same as for the keyboard-related items. Might simply
be that the mouse and app need to be reinstalled in order to be reconfigured
to the current state of things.

> >
> > The following are started by commands in the Registry, specifically
> the
> > following key:
> > HKEY_Local_Machine\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\Run
> >
> > > AT&T DSL Service PCA Program Registry (Machine Run) C:\Program
> > Files\AT&T\DSL\programs\dslpca.exe /ws
> > I'm assuming you need this one to get online? If not, you should
> consider it
> > a strong suspect, at least. I don't recognize it as necessary hardware
> > support or just guck installed by AT&T that you really don't need.
> Again,
> > this one sets off alarms.
>
> Hmm, I'd assume it's necessary in getting onilne, but I don't know.

One to research. It is the case with almost all ISP installations that a
small part of the stuff they foist upon you is actually required to connect,
and the rest is an unnecessary burden to the system.

> >
> > > Zone Labs Client Registry (Machine Run)
> > C:\PROGRA~1\ZONELA~1\ZONEAL~1\zlclient.exe
> > Gotta have it, and should be no problem, but I'd include it in the
> list of
> > possible suspects.
> >
> > > TkBellExe Registry (Machine Run) "C:\Program Files\Common
> > Files\Real\Update_OB\realsched.exe" -osboot
> > Get rid of this one, period! Pure garbage.
>
> I've unchecked this in Startup tab of msconfig.

MSCONFIG is a great trouble-shooting app, used for *temporarily* disabling
items to see what happens (or to get them temporarily out of the way for
maintenance, installing programs, etc.) But when it's determined that
something needs to be permanently dumped, it's best to first investigate the
related app's configuration settings (Preferences, Options) to see if it can
be disabled that way (with the item first re-enabled in MSCONFIG!), and if
not possible, to remove the command from wherever it resides--Startup
folder, Registry, WIN.INI, etc. MSCONFIG will serve you best if it's normal
state is just that--"Normal Startup", everything enabled.

>
> I'll study your test instructions and try this out. Thank you very
> much. Larry

Again, sorry for the delay. As I mentioned earlier, it may be that *none* of
these things are the problem--though all of your optional ones *do* cause
the system to take a hit in Resources, they may not be responsible for the
"leak". It's just as likely that updates have changed some more basic
function in Explorer/IE (the Shell), and if so the first thing to try is IE
Repair--Tools menu of MSINFO32. The other thing to consider is the
likelihood of some parasite taking up residence. I have a whole spiel on
"Clean Boot" (as defined by me) and parasites, AV and cleaning them out that
you might want to review for suggestions. Rather than post that lengthy
treatise hear, let me suggest that you see the last post to this NG where I
included it in full: Subject: "Re: SETI, ME, and defrag", posted this
morning at 12:19 am, PDT. Or try this link:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=%23eLvfR4TEHA.2716%40tk2msftngp13.phx. gbl